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Thread: What is work?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    The ideals I stated created a society wealthy enough that someone such as russell would have the time to write such dreck.
    Bertrand understood the Ancient Greeks from whom all our philosophy derives, and so he understood the difference between the slave morality and the morality of the free man, as did the Ancient Greeks.

    However the Protestants taught us that if we work under the great Slave Driver called God, we would be rewarded with prosperity in this life and heaven in the next.

    But as Neville Rann the Labor Premier of New South Wales said, the only important thing about the working class is to get out of it.

  2. #42
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Bertrand understood the Ancient Greeks from whom all our philosophy derives, and so he understood the difference between the slave morality and the morality of the free man, as did the Ancient Greeks.

    However the Protestants taught us that if we work under the great Slave Driver called God, we would be rewarded with prosperity in this life and heaven in the next.
    God is anything but a slave driver. In his benevolence he set apart one day out of seven where people should only rest. Moreover, the protestant God is not some mysterious white bearded man sitting on top of a mountain. Rather my God came to earth as a human. He himself endured work and suffering for the sake of God the Father. God has not asked me to do anything that he himself was not willing to do. Please give me some basis for your claim that the protestant God is a slave driver.

    Does anyone not believe that there is a general order in this world? That there are general principles?

    Most people that work hard prosper and most people who are lazy do not prosper.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  3. #43
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Define "general order of things".. Just how much order do you see exactly?

    I think there is some order to the universe, but I also think the idea of "order" gets abused. So I tend to dislike the word. There is lot more chaos to the world than some want to think.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Define "general order of things".. Just how much order do you see exactly?

    I think there is some order to the universe, but I also think the idea of "order" gets abused. So I tend to dislike the word. There is lot more chaos to the world than some want to think.
    Everything happens for a reason. There is no such thing as chance.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  5. #45
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Don't mean to be rude, but I'm not sure where this is going actually.. How it applies to work/what you meant by order. Not sure what "everything may happen for a reason" is supposed to mean, given the context.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Everything happens for a reason. There is no such thing as chance.
    Read in the Discipline of Statistics for a while.

  7. #47
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Don't mean to be rude, but I'm not sure where this is going actually.. How it applies to work/what you meant by order. Not sure what "everything may happen for a reason" is supposed to mean, given the context.
    You're not being rude at all. If anything I was being lazy, by not fully explaining myself.

    Through God's benevolence to the entirety of humanity he has established a general order of prosperity and poverty. That is by his common grace (grace bestowed on the christian and non-christian) those that are diligent in their work prosper and those that are lazy do not prosper. This is simply the normal way the world works. Ultimately though all favor showed to humans both in worldly and spiritual affairs is unearned because all humans are fallen and sinful.

    So as a Christian I don't work primarily because I want God to favor me... he has already shown favor to me through my salvation by the sacrifice of his son. I workout out of thankfulness... or at least I should. It is only of secondary importance that I also work with the knowledge that God is just and that I will either be rewarded for my good works in this world or in the next.

    God may decide according to his will to deter from the normal. He may cause poverty to fall upon a diligent person through no fault of their own. A Christian views such an occurrence as an event that God will use to make us more righteous. If we maintain faith in God through troublesome times we will become more humble and more like Christ himself (who was no rich man.) Even if a Christian is lazy and falls upon hard times I don't view that as punishment merely for the sake of punishment. My God does not bring harm upon his children unless ultimately it will do them good.

    Roman 8:28 (ESV) And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
    Now as for bad things that happen to non-christians it is a completely different story. Anything good that happens to either a lazy non-christian or a diligent non-christian is because of God's unmerited common grace to them. Any poverty or anything bad in general that happens to a non-christian whether they are diligent or lazy is a just result of God's wrath upon them. It is justified because they are fallen and sinful.

    So while there is a general order, God may deter from that to accomplish his own ends. The raising up of Pharaoh, an evil man who prospered through the enslavement of the Israelites, is an excellent example of where God deters from the norm.

    Romans 9:17 (ESV) For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”
    This is all to say that everything that happens on earth ultimately occurs to bring glory to God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor
    Read in the Discipline of Statistics for a while.
    You're a funny guy. But, I have no interest in word games.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  8. #48
    Senior Member valentine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post


    Now as for bad things that happen to non-christians it is a completely different story. Anything good that happens to either a lazy non-christian or a diligent non-christian is because of God's unmerited common grace to them. Any poverty or anything bad in general that happens to a non-christian whether they are diligent or lazy is a just result of God's wrath upon them. It is justified because they are fallen and sinful.
    The word 'absurd' is not strong enough to explain this type of reasoning.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by valentine View Post
    The word 'absurd' is not strong enough to explain this type of reasoning.
    What is absurd is that a being that is perfect and holy in every way would endure for even a second the very existence of inherently evil humans. Much less, that such a being would condescend and sacrifice himself on their behalf.

    Again, it is not fear, but the unfathomable benevolence of God that motivates me to work.

    I realize I have placed a lot of emphasis on working for the glory of God. While this is the main purpose of work according to the puritans there is also a second purpose: the welfare of others. As the puritan Richard Baxter stated:
    "The public welfare, or the good of the many is to be valued above our own. Every man, therefore, is bound to do all he can for others, especially for the church and commonwealth."
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  10. #50
    Senior Member Chunes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    What is absurd is that a being that is perfect and holy in every way would endure for even a second the very existence of inherently evil humans.
    We aren't inherently evil, and of course God can stand the presence of his own creations. That would be pretty damn silly if He couldn't.
    "If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. But do not care to convince him. Men will believe what they see. Let them see."
    Thoreau

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