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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    Ideally, we should have someone probably about 3/4 of one and 1/4 of the other I think. People with almost no morals still do have morals, they just tend to be twisted perversions of such. People who are 'good' still have flaws, but they don't overtake their whole personality usually.
    Nice summation.

    Because then we'll just get shoved back into black and white again.
    That is what I get scared of, when the pendulum swings too far in one way.

    I'm currently playing the game Dragon Age, and the eight NPCs you can have join your party do a really nice job of covering a LOT of ground in personality and morality without any of the NPCs actually being portrayed as overly noble or bad. There are gradiations there, and some of the personalities are less palatable than others, but there is a consistency to belief and an attempt to "do right" by each of them that just often brings them into real contempt/disagreement with each other.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'm currently playing the game Dragon Age, and the eight NPCs you can have join your party do a really nice job of covering a LOT of ground in personality and morality without any of the NPCs actually being portrayed as overly noble or bad. There are gradiations there, and some of the personalities are less palatable than others, but there is a consistency to belief and an attempt to "do right" by each of them that just often brings them into real contempt/disagreement with each other.
    Damn good voice actors in that game though. Claudia Black as Morrigan ftw!

    Although I can't stand Leliana.

    Also, Tim Curry is epic.

    As for the various factions in the game, I agree it's all pretty stereotypical, apart from the main characters. But that's expected of a videogame. They did a marvelous job anyways. Second best single player game I've played ever so far.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  3. #13
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Nice summation.
    I'm currently playing the game Dragon Age, and the eight NPCs you can have join your party do a really nice job of covering a LOT of ground in personality and morality without any of the NPCs actually being portrayed as overly noble or bad.
    Great game; I'm not going to give away any specifics, but I also like how doing the "right" thing does not always lead to the best "humanitarian" outcome.

    I actually just finished watching "Princess Mononoke" again, which does the same thing (in that neither side was overly good or bad), except that neither side is portrayed as morally superior to the other.
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 02-15-2010 at 02:44 PM. Reason: clarification

  4. #14
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Damn good voice actors in that game though. Claudia Black as Morrigan ftw!

    Although I can't stand Leliana.
    I liked them both; I was trying for a threesome (as in Jade Empire), but that of course failed. The attempt was quite hilarious, however.

  5. #15
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    Yes, I have a view. As a horror movie fan, I understand that most "monster" movies reflect fears in society. If you look back on the history of horror cinema, particularly in the United States, you will see how the popular horror flicks mirrored social terrors of that era. For example, in the 50's simplistic American horror tapped into fears of communism, outer space, and aliens. In the 60's, religion became more of a topic. By the 70's, children were often being portrayed as monsters - probably a reflection of the growing youth culture, the extreme social changes of the sixties, and some people even think it has something to do with social mores changing in terms of birth control and abortion. Serial killer flicks also began popping up to mirror what seemed to be a glut of serial killers in the mid-to-late 20th century. Of course, I am not even touching on Italian horror, giallo, and French New Wave horror.

    80's slasher flicks (like Nightmare on Elm Street and Friday the 13th) are "fun" in my opinion. The people having sex or smoking pot always get killed - there's a conservative agenda directed at teens which is both preposterous and silly.

    However, horror also reflects our own dark side, the monster within - and we all have one. I strongly approve of Rob Zombie's more sympathetic and psychological take on Mike Myers in his re-make of Halloween. As our society has become less and less religious and more enlightened in terms of psychology and psychiatry, I think that many horror movies have started to reflect that.

    I don't share your opinion that black and white is somehow "better." No one in their right mind relies on horror movies to teach ethics or morality. I do think, though, that it's a positive thing for people to understand that "human nature" and "sin" and "evil" are very gray area concepts with complex motives.

  6. #16
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Damn good voice actors in that game though. Claudia Black as Morrigan ftw!
    I think she's incredible!
    (really disappointed in Kate Mulgrew, though. ugh.)

    Although I can't stand Leliana.
    My INFP bf is in love with that tramp...

    Those are two of the extremes in the group -- L's pretty much the epitome of the mystic Christian, Morrigan your intellectual objectivist. When they start bantering sometimes, it's very much a philosophical argument that plays itself out. I felt like the positions were pretty fairly represented too.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Great game; I'm not going to give away any specifics, but I also like how doing the "right" thing does not always lead to the best "humanitarian" outcome.
    There's that too.

    I really felt like the game thought things out and exposed the ambiguities in what moral decisions have to commonly be made. Even picking what seemed to be "good" answers didn't always pan out the way I had hoped... and sometimes picking a worse answer ended up working to my advantage at least short-term.

    (Loghain and Bhalen are both interesting too.)

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Yes, I have a view. As a horror movie fan, I understand that most "monster" movies reflect fears in society. If you look back on the history of horror cinema, particularly in the United States, you will see how the popular horror flicks mirrored social terrors of that era. For example, in the 50's simplistic American horror tapped into fears of communism, outer space, and aliens. In the 60's, religion became more of a topic. By the 70's, children were often being portrayed as monsters - probably a reflection of the growing youth culture, the extreme social changes of the sixties, and some people even think it has something to do with social mores changing in terms of birth control and abortion. Serial killer flicks also began popping up to mirror what seemed to be a glut of serial killers in the mid-to-late 20th century.
    Nice pattern connection there.

    (We see similar patterns emerge in terms of what joke cycles become popular in the culture... i.e., dead baby jokes emerged during the first decade after abortion became legal, as a way of addressing a taboo topic.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #17
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    If yeu want a really truly good version of "good and evil" done right, watch all of babylon 5 sometime.

    I do believe Bester is one of the best done "evil" characters ever. Yeu're shown just enough of his humanity that yeu have some hope or faith in him, then he does something so horrible that yeu just don't care anymore and want him dead anyway.

    In the end, he does whot he does for love, and dedication, commitment, either to his lover or his people, but he is still a grade A asshole through and through in the ways he goes about doing it.

    If yeu are not a telepath, then yeu are expendable to him; less than human, even.

    Virtually every character int he show's like that... Kosh, Vir, Sherridan, Londo, G'kar, the list goes on, they may be "good" at one moment, but the next may be "evil". They do whot they do with reason and good explaination though. Londo is essentially "good", a patriot... and yet ends up using banned technology to bomb a rival planet into the stone age, quite literally, and realizes in horror whot he did in the process. Then he tries to make it 'right' via assassination, subterfuge, the guy's a "good" guy, but willing to do "evil" as the ends justify the means.

    They even get into religious debate, ethical and moral delimmas (whot would yeu do with immortality? Whot if that immortality only came as the cost of killing someone else? Whot if to get that immortality yeu had to side with someone who the entire galaxy thought was a dozen times worse than hitlar himself... because she actually was? Do yeu throw her in jail, put her on a mock trial, just kill her on the spot, or is the promise of immortality worth ignoring yeur morals?)

    There's so many things covered from the vorlons and the shadows, that the "good = beauty" turns out to be quite, quite wrong, and that "evil = death" is also quite wrong, with strong explaination and imagery on both.

    The series is probably one of the best ever written, and highly recommended <3

    It starts off a little slow in the first season or two, but ramps up to pure absolute win quickly <3

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