Beauty, the Supernatural and MBTI

[Mole]

Supernatural don't exist?

Just as evidence and reason given to us by the Enlightenment show that the supernatural doesn't exist, so evidence and reason show MBTI is a fraud.

 

[matmos]

To page 6!

 

[highlander]

Just as evidence and reason given to us by the Enlightenment show that the supernatural doesn't exist, so evidence and reason show MBTI is a fraud.

What evidence are you referring to?

 

[Ginkgo]

Just as evidence and reason given to us by the Enlightenment show that the supernatural doesn't exist, so evidence and reason show MBTI is a fraud.

I enjoy your integrity in this thread. I can feel it jolting through my bones more than your other threads.

You say that there has been no double-blind study of MBTI conducted. However, many of us have incorporated our knowledge of MBTI with the beauty of human behavior. It has been analyzed from dusk til dawn. There is blatant evidence - small or large - regardless of your admonishment of its ethics.

I understand your reasoning. MBTI teeters the parameters of faith, but you still have yet to clarify how MBTI is some sort of beast with two backs. Is my behavior ugly? Who's behavior is ugly?

 

[heart]

C'mon groups bully individuals. But if the individual fights back, they are accused of being hostile. It's called Catch 22.

Yes, that does happen. But it's not really what is going on here. You came here and posted aggressive comments against Americans, not just American corporations or American government but also about Americans in general. Americans responded in kind to you and you cried victim.

This kind of behavior baffles me. I understand when people want to pick fights and enjoy them when they get them. I do not understand when people pick fights and then cry victim when they get them.

Edit: What I am really getting at is if you want to be a teacher, you can't antagonize the people you want to teach and expect them to listen to you. Human nature doesn't work that way and a true teacher has to understand and work with human nature.

 

[Jaguar]

It takes only one person to tell the truth, but whole institutions to tell a lie.

And quite often the truth is eventually recognised, but it is ... bullied along the way.

Actually, I support those comments.
If not for one man at the U.S. Food and Drug Administration blowing the whistle,
the drug Vioxx would probably still be on the market giving people heart attacks.

One man made a difference. It is true.

After he blew the whistle, he was indeed bullied by idiots who work at the FDA.
They tried their damndest to smear his reputation.
It was one hell of a story here in the U.S. years ago.

 

[Mole]

I enjoy your integrity in this thread. I can feel it jolting through my bones more than your other threads.

You say that there has been no double-blind study of MBTI conducted. However, many of us have incorporated our knowledge of MBTI with the beauty of human behavior. It has been analyzed from dusk til dawn. There is blatant evidence - small or large - regardless of your admonishment of its ethics.

I understand your reasoning. MBTI teeters the parameters of faith, but you still have yet to clarify how MBTI is some sort of beast with two backs. Is my behavior ugly? Who's behavior is ugly?

MBTI is ugly because it reifies.

This may not be so important except it is being done by USA business in a society that commodifies everything.

And so to turn a person into a commodity it is first necessary to reify them.

And if you live inside the commodity society, it is invisible to you and MBTI will seem to be intuitively true.

Reification has a very bad history, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was signed to address reification.

Of course the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was signed to stop the reification of people in order to kill them - as it is much easier to kill a thing than a person.

However MBTI reifies people, not to kill them, but to sell them as units of production.

In other words, commodification and MBTI treats persons as means to an end, namely profit.

Whereas I believe each person is an end in themselves.

 

[KDude]

What is most interesting is that the words, "Move on", are those used regularly by police.

And the word, "Move on", are used here by the thought police.

Yeah, that is interesting. :zzz:

"Move on" is saying that you should start empowering yourself, and stop worrying about what you can not change. But feel free to be stubborn about it, and calling people the "thought police" over a positive phrase. If that's the kind of argumentative skills you rely on, then you have a long way to go in this epic struggle of yours to convert the masses.

 

[Polaris]

Just as evidence and reason given to us by the Enlightenment show that the supernatural doesn't exist, so evidence and reason show MBTI is a fraud.

You speak of the supernatural, and you think of the supernatural. Can we call a word silence? Can we call a thought an empty shadow? All things are things, however phantasmal they may be, and anything that falls in your path has already served as a stepping stone. Since we cannot abolish the path behind us, why not set our sights ahead? The supernatural will take us anywhere, and we will go anywhere at all; nothing can hold us back or push us forward, not even a personality theory.

 

[Ginkgo]

MBTI is ugly because it reifies.

This may not be so important except it is being done by USA business in a society that commodifies everything.

And so to turn a person into a commodity it is first necessary to reify them.

And if you live inside the commodity society, it is invisible to you and MBTI will seem to be intuitively true.

Reification has a very bad history, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was signed to address reification.

Of course the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was signed to stop the reification of people in order to kill them - as it is much easier to kill a thing than a person.

However MBTI reifies people, not to kill them, but to sell them as units of production.

So, like the scornful reprimanding of a child, MBTI molds behavior by "reification"? You claim that base human behavior is paramount. But don't you confide in faith that it is "supernatural" in the same sense?

You're saying that the un-molded person is the best person to be. Of course, the un-molded person must form himself through learned experience, rather than being taught by superiors - or by a personality matrix. You seem to have an aversion to taught behavior, regardless of whether it is ethical or unethical.

However, some people view the personality matrix as a suspension from reality. There is nothing to be said about them, so the ethical standard is redacted upon your own fears, and perhaps a few others'.

 

[highlander]

MBTI is ugly because it reifies.

This may not be so important except it is being done by USA business in a society that commodifies everything.

And so to turn a person into a commodity it is first necessary to reify them.

And if you live inside the commodity society, it is invisible to you and MBTI will seem to be intuitively true.

Reification has a very bad history, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was signed to address reification.

Of course the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was signed to stop the reification of people in order to kill them - as it is much easier to kill a thing than a person.

However MBTI reifies people, not to kill them, but to sell them as units of production.

In other words, commodification and MBTI treats persons as means to an end, namely profit.

Whereas I believe each person is an end in themselves.

This is very interesting. So, is this the heart of your anti-MBTI stance?

So you're suggesting that US corporations and the US Military are behind this in order to make people more effective workers and to increase profits? In and of itself, this may not be so horrible but given the externalities caused by powerful US corporations and the US military, this effects the rest of the world. Am I close on this?

A couple potentially relevant links to this argument (I think)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reification_(Marxism)
Theology Today - Vol 49, No.3 - October 1992 - EDITORIAL - Myers-Briggs and Other Modern Astrologies

Edit: And perhaps you may be suggesting something related to the corrosive impact of Western (US) culture on the rest of the world, effected through American media, which combined with these other factors negatively impacts other societies and individuals (like let's say Australia).

 

[Ginkgo]

This is very interesting. So, is this the heart of your anti-MBTI stance?

So you're suggesting that US corporations and the US Military are behind this in order to make people more effective workers and to increase profits? In and of itself, this may not be so horrible but given the externalities caused by powerful US corporations and the US military, this effects the rest of the world. Am I close on this?

A couple potentially relevant links to this argument (I think)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reification_(Marxism)
Theology Today - Vol 49, No.3 - October 1992 - EDITORIAL - Myers-Briggs and Other Modern Astrologies

Ahh... Interesting. Thank you for the links.

 

[Totenkindly]

Actually, I support those comments.
If not for one man at the U.S. Food and Drug Administration blowing the whistle,
the drug Vioxx would probably still be on the market giving people heart attacks.

One man made a difference. It is true.

After he blew the whistle, he was indeed bullied by idiots who work at the FDA.
They tried their damndest to smear his reputation.
It was one hell of a story here in the U.S. years ago.

...and then there was Mark Whitacre.

 

[Jaguar]

...and then there was Mark Whitacre.

It doesn't change the fact that one man can make a difference.
Living in fear of the boogie man is not the answer.

 

[Totenkindly]

It doesn't change the fact that one man can make a difference.
Living in fear of the boogie man is not the answer.

...what's the boogie man here again?

 

[Mole]

This is very interesting. So, is this the heart of your anti-MBTI stance?

I am in favour of personality tests that are valid and reliable and are subject to double blind testing and administered by an independent professional..

Unfortunately MBTI is invalid and unreliable and is not subject to double blind testing nor is it administered by an independent professional.

Ring the Psychology Department of any reputable University and they will tell you the same.

So the interesting question arises - MBTI has been used, not by Universities, but by the USA military and USA business, for seventy years. So what are they using it for?

And I only mention the USA because I don't think Oz military or business use MBTI. And if I found out they were using MBTI, I would publicly lampoon them.

 

[Sniffles]

And I only mention the USA because I don't think Oz military or business use MBTI. And if I found out they were using MBTI, I would publicly lampoon them.

Sure you would Victor.

 

[heart]

I am in favour of personality tests that are valid and reliable and are subject to double blind testing.

Unfortunately MBTI is invalid and unreliable and is not subject to double blind testing.

Ring the Psychology Department of any reputable University and they will tell you the same.

So the interesting question arises - MBTI has been used, not by Universities, but by the USA military and USA business, for seventy years. So what are they using it for?

And I only mention the USA because I don't think Oz military or business use MBTI. And if I found out they were using MBTI, I would publicly lampoon them.

These people disagree. I wonder if you contacted them, if they would inform you of the Australian businesses that use MBTI?

Myers Briggs Type Indicators (MBTI) is the among the most widely used profiling tools in Australian business.
Our take on MBTI | ergo consulting

 

[Sniffles]

These people disagree. I wonder if you contacted them, if they would inform you of the Australian businesses that use MBTI?

See....what did I say? Just like Victor always like to rant about pedophilia elsewhere, but is rather silent about it in his own country. Speaking of which:
Why is child abuse an accepted norm in Australia? - On Line Opinion - 22/10/2008

 

[highlander]

I am in favour of personality tests that are valid and reliable and are subject to double blind testing and administered by an independent professional..

Unfortunately MBTI is invalid and unreliable and is not subject to double blind testing nor is it administered by an independent professional.

Ring the Psychology Department of any reputable University and they will tell you the same.

So the interesting question arises - MBTI has been used, not by Universities, but by the USA military and USA business, for seventy years. So what are they using it for?

And I only mention the USA because I don't think Oz military or business use MBTI. And if I found out they were using MBTI, I would publicly lampoon them.

I understand your points.

I can't speak to the military. However, the thing is, I just don't see widespread or pervasive use of MBTI in business. I personally have an interest in it but I don't know anyone else that does IRL. You'll see the rare assessment and workshop (often not MBTI by the way). My experience is that it is a one-off designed for people to understand each other a little better, tolerate the differences a little more and get along. The results are shortly forgotten except that people realize there are reasons others think or act differently than them. Outside of this one thing, it is by no means or manner whatsoever pervasive in business in the US - in my experience.

Another interesting link on reification that I found.
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~vburris/reification.pdf

See....what did I say? Just like Victor always like to rant about pedophilia elsewhere, but is rather silent about it in his own country. Speaking of which:
Why is child abuse an accepted norm in Australia? - On Line Opinion - 22/10/2008

Now Now...