Optimism and Pessimism in Atheism

[Lark]

In the main most Atheists I've met havent been very happy or well adjusted people. Some of them have been mirror images of their evangelical opposites.

For me some sort of deep down similarity in character structure explains this and also why some individuals can and do "switch camps" as they do, often with reinvigorated adamency or vigor.

However I wonder if there is any kind of correlation between optimism and pessimism and atheism, what do you think? A lot of atheism to me seems born of despair, with a pervasive bitterness, searching for further proof, particularly by convincing others, of their worst fears and suspiscions. Often clinging to singular, myopic and over simplified moral precepts in the process.

On the other hand I could be only witnessing one kind of atheism, the perspectives of the materialists or cult of reason or even Epicurious are more hopeful and hold out a desire for freedom from fear of vengeful spirits, capricous ancestors or dieties.

Views.

 

[KDude]

On the internet, I've met some diehard atheists who came off as evangelistic, not to mention cynical in other types of conversation. Offline though, I only know one very serious atheist, but he's probably the nicest, upbeat guy I know. I mean, he sings John Denver songs and shit.

So no, I don't think there's any correlation.

 

[ajblaise]

I think there are two main ways people arrive at atheism:

1. People who just got a raw deal in life. These people literally had the faith beat out of them. These are the "pessimistic atheists". And for good reason, because in their eyes, if there was a God, the God must really hate them.

2. People who arrived at atheism through a slow series of existential and intellectual musings, that had nothing to do with the harshness of life. Most of these people aren't angry at all, they just can't fool themselves into believing. So with these people, optimism is more compatible with their atheism.

 

[sofmarhof]

Epicurious

I believe you may have meant Epicurus.

Anyway. I'm an atheist because my parents are, and I never had the religious education that would make be believe in any god. So, I have not arrived at atheism through travail or through intellectual reflection, I simply was never given any reason to believe any religion.

Both of my parents were raised as Christians. My dad is a classic NT nerd, but he's never talked about when he became an atheist. My mom, however, specifically mentioned that she decided, after her favorite aunt died, that there could be no god because he wouldn't do anything so cruel as kill a good person at an early age.

Likewise, a culturally-Jewish friend of mine says she is an atheist because of the Holocaust.

Now, that's a good reason not to believe in the Christian, omnipotent, benevolent God. But if you think about it, it makes just as much (or maybe more) sense to believe in an evil god than in a good one. (If I liked in the Middle Ages I'd probably be a Gnostic.)

Anyway, my mom and this friend are much more militant in their atheism than me, while my dad seems to fall somewhere in the middle (but closer to them than to me). Personally I don't like the emotionally-driven atheism so much, as I feel like it's not real atheism if it's not purely logical, but you can call that Thinker-chauvinism.

Purely logical atheism, however, overlaps about 0.1% with agnosticism, since there will never be definitive proof that there is no god. I think of it as a highly unlikely possibility that I don't care much about.

Being a second-generation atheist is great as you can enjoy scholarly Bible study, religious art & mythology without being bitter about it.

 

[compulsiverambler]

I think there are two main ways people arrive at atheism:

1. People who just got a raw deal in life. These people literally had the faith beat out of them. These are the "pessimistic atheists". And for good reason, because in their eyes, if there was a God, the God must really hate them.

2. People who arrived at atheism through a slow series of existential and intellectual musings, that had nothing to do with the harshness of life. Most of these people aren't angry at all, they just can't fool themselves into believing. So with these people, optimism is more compatible with their atheism.

In the USA those may well be the main types. Here in the UK and I understand in much of the rest of Europe, it seems most atheists are people who weren't raised to believe that God is real, have thought about it quite briefly and come to their conclusion with little need to ever think about it again, as the culture doesn't pressure people to believe in God or to think about it much.

Therefore, atheists here are not unhappy people. Among the young they're the majority, and therefore not uniform in nature or easy to stereotype. All kinds of personalities here are atheists and the stereotyping we have is actually of 'kinds' of theists, instead. In other words, as you in the US ponder what might make people atheists in the 21st century, we ponder what might make people theists.

If atheists are unhappy in the USA, it may have something to do with certain personalities being more likely to be atheists within such a context, but it must also be to do with how much pressure there often is to conform to the theism that surrounds them. We have the opposite phenomenon: believers who take their practices quite seriously are the butt of many a joke and especially in schools, talking about such beliefs makes you a target for bullies who will see it as weird.

 

[redacted]

Optimism and pessimism don't really have much to do with my atheism...

I tend to have lots of faith in the future of myself and humanity.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

I think a lot of things about me seem depresesed, but I doubt it has anything to do with religion.

I generally call myself an agnostic because I don't care enough to be assertive about it, enough to be an atheist. I find religious debates boring at best, and annoying at worst, and I don't care who's side anyone is on. Religious opinion is not a significant part of my psychology, my philosophy, my life in much of any way.

 

[Bri]

I'd say I'm a doubter, not specifically an agnostic or atheist. Anyway...
I've found that having no god or religion can be rather lonely if you dwell on it too much. I realized after stepping away from religion just how much responsibility I have for my own life and actions. Weirdly, I think I'm a better person now that I don't have faith - more open minded and accepting, more understanding of people's choices. But, I may just be deluding myself so I don't feel guilty about being godless. (I was raised in a religious home, so this whole thing is an interesting journey for me. I have difficulty decoding my motivations at times.)

 

[Skyward]

In the USA those may well be the main types. Here in the UK and I understand in much of the rest of Europe, it seems most atheists are people who weren't raised to believe that God is real, have thought about it quite briefly and come to their conclusion with little need to ever think about it again, as the culture doesn't pressure people to believe in God or to think about it much.

Therefore, atheists here are not unhappy people. Among the young they're the majority, and therefore not uniform in nature or easy to stereotype. All kinds of personalities here are atheists and the stereotyping we have is actually of 'kinds' of theists, instead. In other words, as you in the US ponder what might make people atheists in the 21st century, we ponder what might make people theists.

If atheists are unhappy in the USA, it may have something to do with certain personalities being more likely to be atheists within such a context, but it must also be to do with how much pressure there often is to conform to the theism that surrounds them. We have the opposite phenomenon: believers who take their practices quite seriously are the butt of many a joke and especially in schools, talking about such beliefs makes you a target for bullies who will see it as weird.

I agree on this post, there are lots of examples of 'God hates me' atheism in stories and culture. The book Byzantine by Stephen R. Lawhead has the main character, a monk, who begins to doubt God's existence because of all the trials he went through. Many people who live in shitty neighborhoods or in a shitty situation don't believe in God because: 'If God really loved the world why is there so much suffering?'

In my experience that the US is actually one of the most conservative Christian of the first world countries, and as a Chrsitian, I think it is why the US is blessed with its power.

Atheists are really the minority, ESPECIALLY in small-town USA (my town had 7 Lutheran churches and at least 5 other denominations of Christian or weird spin offs of it).

The Ancient Romans and Greeks regarded death with contempt. They saw death as reason to seize the day, carpe diem.

Their outlook was pessimistic and I must admit I find the pessimistic outlook congenial.

Optimism seems to me to be a desperate attempt to avoid pessimism. And embracing pessimism leaves one free to seize the day, carpe diem. And pessimism seems to have a certain insouciance.

And to be insouciant in the face of death leaves one free to seize the day.

And insouciance leaves no room for depression, the modern disease, but allows the day to burst in with full splendour.

I think you might be confusing pessimism with realism. Pessimists are good at just seeing the bad sides of things, realists want to see both sides of the coin equally, and optimists like to focus on the good side of the coin. For me, my mood affects my energy, so depression does the OPPOSITE of help me seize the day. If I'm in a good mood I can seize the day because I don't care about the bad (Any more than necessary) and I have lots of energy to use for doing things I enjoy.

 

[CJ99]

In the UK theres way more than two types of Atheist. Most people my age are atheist.

Theres not really a pessimism or optimism in Atheism as a whole. Not from my knowledge. There is a fustration I suppose at religion when its sticks its nose in politics and trys to preach to young people. But that justifiable.

 

[Asterion]

I think there are two main ways people arrive at atheism:

1. People who just got a raw deal in life. These people literally had the faith beat out of them. These are the "pessimistic atheists". And for good reason, because in their eyes, if there was a God, the God must really hate them.

2. People who arrived at atheism through a slow series of existential and intellectual musings, that had nothing to do with the harshness of life. Most of these people aren't angry at all, they just can't fool themselves into believing. So with these people, optimism is more compatible with their atheism.

Point two also includes the agnostic side. Also, is it that they can't fool themselves or others can't fool them? (or a combination)

I used to be agnostic, then I watched a few TED lectures made by Richard Dawkins that were very convincing. I don't mind if people want to believe in religion, it's their choice (occasionally people have alternative reasons for being a part of a religion). I just don't believe a word of it, and it's not worth arguing about. Now, as for optimism/pessimism, I'm quite optimistic in that if any gods exist, they wont burn me alive in hell for eternity. That's optimism and atheism isn't it?

 

[murkrow]

Western monotheists think there's a better world to be found in death and we atheists get called pessimistic.

 

[SillySapienne]

I'm an optimistic atheist, (though, technically speaking, I'm agnostic)!!!



Yes, there is ugliness in the world we live in, but my oh my there is also so much beauty and awe-inspiring wonder!!!

 

[LucrativeSid]

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality." - George Bernard Shaw

I'd rather be badly adjusted to reality than well adjusted to falsehood. I know what you're saying, though. I think that when you don't have a book, a church, and a community of believers that tell you how to think, feel, and act, it will take a little more time and effort to adjust yourself peacefully to the universe on your own. (Especially when there's a major shortage of people around you who can set a positive example.) But once you get there, it's real at least.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Optimism and Pessimism both refer to a future state of affairs - probably better or probably worse than expected.
For theists, these things may be influenced by a supernatural entity, and if they believe in such an entity, they will probably think there is some plan or purpose as well to how things are going. Maybe pessimists will think that after a miserable life, things will get at least better, while optimists might think that things will get even better. - I don't know, being a strong agnostic myself.

I don't know whether I'm an optimist - maybe leaning in that direction; I'm just definitely not a pessimist (though I think "realist" probably wouldn't accurately describe me either because "reality" is already a messy and complicated issue in itself). In any case, I have neither the need for, nor do I see, any consolation that religion might give me. I just think that our own possibilities of perception are large enough to perceive a lot of things as accidental, or in any case not predetermined, and I'm fairly convinced that most things won't happen in the most negative direction.
It's also a somewhat pragmatic decision because I think that if I actually expected things to turn out for the worse, I wouldn't put much effort in anything since I would think that things would go wrong anyway.

 

[compulsiverambler]

Western monotheists think there's a better world to be found in death and we atheists get called pessimistic.

That's quite funny (the intended thought), but technically inaccurate. Atheism isn't disbelief in an afterlife, it's disbelief in the existence of gods, no more, no less. Many atheists believe in an afterlife (e.g. spiritualists, buddhists) and many theists don't believe in an afterlife (e.g. Jews). You'd need to coin opposite terms like 'afterlife-ists' and 'a-afterlife-ists' for that witticism to make sense.

 

[murkrow]

That's quite funny (the intended thought), but technically inaccurate. Atheism isn't disbelief in an afterlife, it's disbelief in the existence of gods, no more, no less. Many atheists believe in an afterlife (e.g. spiritualists, buddhists) and many theists don't believe in an afterlife (e.g. Jews). You'd need to coin opposite terms like 'afterlife-ists' and 'a-afterlife-ists' for that witticism to make sense.

 

[Totenkindly]

I think there are two main ways people arrive at atheism:

1. People who just got a raw deal in life. These people literally had the faith beat out of them. These are the "pessimistic atheists". And for good reason, because in their eyes, if there was a God, the God must really hate them.

2. People who arrived at atheism through a slow series of existential and intellectual musings, that had nothing to do with the harshness of life. Most of these people aren't angry at all, they just can't fool themselves into believing. So with these people, optimism is more compatible with their atheism.

Nice generalization, it seems to capture the basics.

I'll have to say too that I find both optimistic and pessimistic evangelicals. The difference in those cases are (1) people who realize their belief in God is a positive choice on their part, and they don't judge others for having different views, vs (2) people who are afraid God will punish them if they veer and in the process view other people and the culture very cynically if they see it not conform to their views of morality.