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  1. #1
    Senior Member Munchies's Avatar
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    Default Nothing, infinity, and everything inbetween

    Nothing




    What is nothing? well a simple person could simply say, to not have. (ex: a basket without any apples.), but that is "a lack of something". I'm talking about complete nothingness.

    The concept of nothing and infinity

    The concept of nothing could be very similar to the concept of infinity, in that nothing is infinitly nothing. For example, we all know numbers can go on forever, add two numbers together to make a bigger number, and then add that bigger number by another, and so on..but at the same time never even being close to infinity. Well, the same concept should be applied when subtracting. If you subtract a number by another and keep repeating this process, you could end up at 0.000000000000000000000000000000000007, but at the same time not even be close 0.. Going by this, would 0 even exist?


    the 3 types of infinity, according to our perception

    1 +infinity: forward in time. its direction is progressive,parallel with time.
    *from our perspective*, +infinity would be the adding up of different forms of matter .(atoms->molecules->plantes->galaxies->...?)

    2 -infinity: back in time.its direction is toward the beginning of the universe
    the deduction of matter itself
    (atoms<-nucleus<-proton<-quark<-...?)

    *The pattern of which could lead one to imagine infinity

    3 infinity: present time
    infinite in an enclosed space (will elaborate further on in my post)


    Deeper than math

    So where does +infinity end, and where does -infinity start? could it be that these two infinities are directly linked? Where the point of origin for the universe began, would it's path lead back into itself creating one entire universe, or would the origin go in all directions creating unlimited possibilities?

    I'll attempt to answer life's biggest questions with my big fat head.


    The origin of the ENTIRE universe, according to me:
    if nothing/0 in itself is -infinite, than for that nothing to "exist", would make it +infinity?

    How the universe works, according to me:
    and a little backup from Riemann sphere - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This brings us to the sexy formula of 0/1=?, which many mathematicians agree with btw.

    So if you divide 1/0, wouldnt that = ??...
    since we all know that anything you divide by 0 will =0, and if 0=?, then wouldn't the outcome of 1/0=??

    So, if 0/1=?, wouldn't that mean 0*?=1? It's the same equation just rearranged, so i would think so.

    Basicly the whole 0*?=1 thing means that the entire infinity is an enclosed system, the inside being infinite and forever expanding, but from an outside perspective, it is just 1.




    A real life example of this, perhaps proving this to be true, is our universe itself. It expanding as you read this in every direction possible creating a sphere like shape.

    As for how the expanding ? we are living in right now came to existance? my guess is a black hole from another ? created another ?.

    note: this is the physics of a blackhole, reversed. So basically, according to my theory, the universe created from the blackhole would always be fed from the universe which created it, similar to how someone would blow a bubble.


    (please ignore the theories enlisted in this photo, and only focus on the physics. And according to my theory, this photo should be the shape of a sphere, expanding from the feed of the point of origin.)(Also, this picture assumes a direction of force, I assume that the direction of force is in every direction, as justified by the expansion of our universe which i have just explained earlier)


    So in conclusion to my theory, I think this is a plausible explanation for the ? expansion of our universe


    This is just some stuff ive been thinking about for a while, feel free to get your thoughts in as well
    Last edited by Munchies; 02-05-2010 at 08:57 PM.
    1+1=3 OMFG

  2. #2
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Munchies View Post
    Nothing


    The concept of nothing and infinity

    The concept of nothing could be very similar to the concept of infinity, in that nothing is infinitly nothing. For example, we all know numbers can go on forever, add two numbers together to make a bigger number, and then add that bigger number by another, and so on..but at the same time never even being close to infinity. Well, the same concept should be applied when subtracting. If you subtract a number by another and keep repeating this process, you could end up at 0.000000000000000000000000000000000007, but at the same time not even be close 0.. Going by this, would 0 even exist?


    1-1=0

    0 and infinity is probably the same thing though.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Munchies's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    1-1=0

    0 and infinity is probably the same thing though.
    in basic math sure it = 0.



    But in nature, the deduction of matter seems to go on forever.

    same conept with measurement, you can never have two exacly same measurments for, making table for example. You will always be a little bit off, even if its0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 01mm off.
    1+1=3 OMFG

  4. #4
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    When I read about this negative infinity, I don't see it actually existing. My reasoning of this is simply the only reason why negative numbers were invented was primarily to denotate direction; the before statement isn't exactly true because we have temperature to thank for that, but once again nature is rather tricky when it comes to nature as you both have shown in your statements. You can't have a negative because you are saying that it never existed and so the point of it doesn't matter because it's imaginary.

    The opposite of something (any number) is nothing which is zero. Whether zero is a limit or not I don't know, but the theory about mathematical numbers I have come up with, as many others have I am sure, I would say yes because nothing can never exist naturally speaking with the whole energy cannot be created or destroyed only transferred.

    Just some ideas I have made over time... don't know if they have real scientific value or not, but I find it satisfying enough to think about.

  5. #5
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    All this math hurts my head. All I needed to learn about nothing I learned from The Neverending Story.

    [YOUTUBE="CrG-lsrXKRM"]What is the Nothing[/YOUTUBE]
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  6. #6
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Even if we allow that the universe is expanding into something beyond our comprehension, it cannot be that reality is expanding into non-reality. Clearly, space and time are not intrinsic to reality, but only to our experience of it. This is also the crux of Schopenhauer's seminal (and oft-misunderstood) conclusion reality, at its highest level, must be infinite and uniform, containing all possible states simultaneously. The Buddhists, Taoists, and others agree, and modern science continues to bear this conclusion witness.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  7. #7
    Senior Member Just another ISTJ's Avatar
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    Thoughts that may not necessarily be pertinent to the discussion at hand:

    Nothing can't exist. It isn't there. Therefore, nothing is a term to describe something that doesn't exist.

    Infinity has no beginning and no end, but it exists. Thus, perhaps the universe never did not exist. It was always there.

    Math and the concept of negatives and positives are merely our way to deciphering the universe. It isn't necessarily a correct way of doing so however. Logic is in and of itself only logical to us, but perhaps not so much on a universal level.

  8. #8
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Default Just a few errors in your arithmetic...

    Quote Originally Posted by Munchies View Post
    Nothing


    The origin of the ENTIRE universe, according to me:
    if nothing/0 in itself is -infinite, than for that nothing to "exist", would make it +infinity?
    Why are you referring to 0 as negative infinite? This seems to be the false premise that is making the rest of your assertions false. Rethink it, bruthah.

    How the universe works, according to me:

    This brings us to the sexy formula of 0/1=?, which many mathematicians agree with btw.
    Really? Which ones? Last I checked, 0/1 = 0.

    So if you divide 1/0, wouldnt that = ??...
    since we all know that anything you divide by 0 will =0, and if 0=?, then wouldn't the outcome of 1/0=??
    The limit of 1/x as x approaches 0 is indeed infinite. This simply means that on the cartesian plot of f(x) = 1/x, f(x) = ?. In other words, the closer x gets to 0, the larger f(x) gets. This makes sense, as division by an increasingly large number will yield an increasingly smaller number. If you look at the plot of f(x) = 1/x, however, you will see that x asymptotically approaches 0 (but never reaches it), meaning that 1/0 is undefined because the plot does not exist at that point.

    So, if 0/1=?, wouldn't that mean 0*?=1? It's the same equation just rearranged, so i would think so.
    You did the resorting of your little equation there correctly, but 0/1 != ?, so you've basically just proven something by assuming a false premise. Funny how that works, huh?

    Basicly the whole 0*?=1 thing means that the entire infinity is an enclosed system, the inside being infinite and forever expanding, but from an outside perspective, it is just 1.
    To be clearer: 0*? != 1. There is some dispute among mathematicians as to what the product of 0*? is, but 1 is hardly in that dispute. To me (and many mathematicians), it makes the most sense for 0*? to be 0, as 0/? = 0, so rearranging the equation gives 0*? = 0. Also, it makes sense conceptually to me because if you take something, and multiply it by nothing, this by definition means that you have nothing of that something.

    However, 0*? is seen as a different phrase by others.

    So in conclusion to my theory, I think this is a plausible explanation for the ? expansion of our universe.
    Not to burst your bubble (or infinitely expanding universe balloon), but you didn't really explain anything here. You just rambled on with a bunch of pseudo-math, defining fallacies to be true, and then using your false premises to categorize a whole false system. Nice try, but learn some math and then rethink your plan of action when tackling the great question of how our universe came to be.

  9. #9
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just another ISTJ View Post
    Nothing can't exist. It isn't there. Therefore, nothing is a term to describe something that doesn't exist.
    You're correct in that what we define as "nothing" is merely the absence of what we define as "something"; however, the question of "Why existence rather than non-existence?" is one of the great questions of philosophy.

    Infinity has no beginning and no end, but it exists. Thus, perhaps the universe never did not exist. It was always there.
    "Infinite", as a concept, has no existence in and of itself; we can imagine infinite space or infinite time, but these things cannot actually exist; if the three-dimensional universe of unilateral time with which we are so familiar had existed for an infinite amount of time, we would never arrive at this point in time, since it would, of necessity, be preceded by an infinite amount of time.

    The same holds true for space; people imagine our quadrant of the universe as "here", then mentally label the surrounding region with "Here Thar Be Infinity", but this is again something we can imagine but which cannot be. Think of it from the opposite angle: you are somewhere else in this universe, removed by an infinite amount of space from a given point B. (If you are so inclined, call point B "Earth".) You begin heading in the direction of point B. Now you've been travelling for trillions upon trillions of light years, still not having reached point B. Trillions upon trillions of years is nothing in relation to an infinite number of years, after all. In fact, by definition, you can never reach point B, because if you reached it, then you would not have been travelling across an infinite amount of space; point B, by its nature, could not exist; the moment we place this point B somewhere, our heretofore infinite line has an end point, and is no longer infinite.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  10. #10
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    I thought math used limits to cover values impossibly close to 0 or infinity (as 1/x).

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