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  1. #21
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    What's your opinion on this? Its clear to me that there's always been varieties of martial artistry before the Bruce Lee movies popularised Kung Fu and Karate in the west, there were waves before that but I kind of think that's one of the more recent that I can think of, but the west didnt look upon fighting or fighting artistry quite the same way.
    There are many and it's hard to speculate without stereotyping. Most martial arts were formed for battle scenarios, defence and attack. The styles have varied greatly and intertwined also.
    Martial arts, for a true martial artist are a way of life.
    The western view, by and large, is somewhat different; various martial arts have been made into sports for competing and most people who train miss the fundamental reasoning behind it.
    For my part, if i study a martial art i want to know all about it and connect with it at root level. I believe it's pointless otherwise.
    It's like learning another language...you can repeat the words but it's all futile unless you understand them.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  2. #22
    Senior Member avolkiteshvara's Avatar
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    Both.

  3. #23
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Performance art.

  4. #24
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    The authoritarian personality lacks inner directiion so seeks outer direction.

    Martial arts, body building and MBTI provide external direction.

    Interestingly, parents, school, peers, work, religion and the military also provide external direction.

    This is fine for chldren, employees, believers and recruits. But for the rest of us, external direction becomes a prison.

    And the only important thing about a prison is escape.

  5. #25
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The authoritarian personality lacks inner directiion so seeks outer direction.

    Martial arts, body building and MBTI provide external direction.

    Interestingly, parents, school, peers, work, religion and the military also provide external direction.

    This is fine for chldren, employees, believers and recruits. But for the rest of us, external direction becomes a prison.

    And the only important thing about a prison is escape.
    So why then do you seek to externalize your perceived internal weaknesses?

  6. #26
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    So why then do you seek to externalize your perceived internal weaknesses?
    I see myself as having relative internal strength.

    I am happiest when following my inner self, and least happy when I must follow external direction.

    However I have arranged my life so I receive little external direction. And I have become skilled at avoiding those who wish to direct me externally.

    Just recently I have learnt to escape from those who wish to control me by hooking my ego. At first I found this a powerful tool of control. But having fallen for ego control here a number of times, I am learning to escape.

  7. #27
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Inside every martial artist, and inside every body builder, is a 98 lb weakling.
    Bullshit. You're remark is baseless and derogatory. Thank you for showing your true colors. So, instead of a 98 pound weakling, what's inside you Victor? Instead of a martial artist or bodybuilder, what discipline do you follow other than touting yourself as the "Loyal Opposition?" Just curious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Whereas free flowing conversation is more like a dance that appeals to the creative personality.
    Once again you are wrong. Please define "creative" in terms specific to your statement above. Are you aware that not everyone in the world feels that conversation is creative, and that to other people movement and physical capability are creative? It's true, I swear. You can look it up on the Internet if you don't believe me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    This is fine for chldren, employees, believers and recruits. But for the rest of us, external direction becomes a prison.
    Please define "us." It seems like your preference for categorizing any part of the world's population that practices some sort of sport or physical discipline as "children, employees, believers and recruits" is once again negative, while belonging to your self proclaimed group of "us" is apparently better in your opinion. Do you realize how sanctimonious that sounds? Please get over yourself. I'm sure you have some merits, but whatever they are they do not qualify you to stand in judgement over anyone else, let alone a large part of mankind. Please Victor, you really have stepped in a turd with this post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    However I have arranged my life so I receive little external direction. And I have become skilled at avoiding those who wish to direct me externally.
    That's all fine and good, Victor, but it also appears to me that you think that people that are physically active are beneath you, and that the path to enlightenment is talking shit on the Internet. I've got a little fact you might want to consider.

    You are a living organism. You are an animal. You need proper nutrition, physical exercise, and rest in order to remain healthy and functional. If you choose to avoid physical exertion whether in the form of martial arts, bodybuilding, dancing, volleyball, aerobics, riding a bicycle, or any other regularly executed physical endeavor, your body will become less and less functional. You will essentially be accelarating the aging (decay) process, as there will be no "external direction" (as you put it) to compel your body to retain its bone density, muscular strength, flexibility, balance, and even your cognitive functions.

    Yes Victor, atheletes minds benefit from their silly antics of external direction. Isn't that amazing? The additional bloodflow caused by exercise actually results in an increase of bloodflow to the brain. Wow. That is amazing isn't it? Do you think that might help you in your efforts to be of optimal internal direction? If you exercise, Victor, you will be able to talk more shit on the Internet than ever before, and be able to do it longer than if you just sit on your ass. How about that?

    So, I implore you to embrace the fact that as a living organism, you need balance in your activities, some of which must be some form of exercise, and if you don't Victor, you have only yourself to blame when you wake up one morning a weak old man, far sooner than ever would have occurred if you simply rejected your intellectual pretentiousness and accepted your humanity.

    For a 98 pound weakling trapped inside a male bodybuilder's physique, I just gave you one hell of an ass chewing, didn't I?

    See Victor, if you embrace some external direction, you won't lose your internal compass, I'm living proof.

    All my comments above are issued with civility and respect toward the loyal opposition. I bid you good day.

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  8. #28
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I see myself as having relative internal strength.

    I am happiest when following my inner self, and least happy when I must follow external direction.

    However I have arranged my life so I receive little external direction. And I have become skilled at avoiding those who wish to direct me externally.

    Just recently I have learnt to escape from those who wish to control me by hooking my ego. At first I found this a powerful tool of control. But having fallen for ego control here a number of times, I am learning to escape.
    Ok.. back from the external world.

    If it makes you feel better, I don't even know where your ego is, and couldn't hook it even if I wanted to.

    I'd like to ask you nicely to keep on topic somewhat. Even if I didn't create this thread -- it's a subject of interest to me and others. Your ideals and/or how you are applying them here, well meaning as they may be, seem to have little to do with the questions the OP asked.

    Secondly, if you can't recognize that martial arts (and even "bodybuilding".. which I myself don't partake in much btw, but still see it's merit) are first and foremost skills achieved by internal strengths, and individual willpower, then you are speaking from ignorance. No martial artist could get anywhere from just drawing from "external authorities". I can find a thousand quotes from martial artists who cherished their private, individual expression (as opposed to bending to rules and authority), but I'll leave you with one.

    “When there is freedom from mechanical conditioning, there is simplicity. The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow - you are not understanding yourself.” - Bruce Lee

    And not only did this guy above just say things.. he lived them out in his short 32 years. So have some respect, if individuality is what you truly respect.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GemPOPGem View Post
    There are many and it's hard to speculate without stereotyping. Most martial arts were formed for battle scenarios, defence and attack. The styles have varied greatly and intertwined also.
    Martial arts, for a true martial artist are a way of life.
    The western view, by and large, is somewhat different; various martial arts have been made into sports for competing and most people who train miss the fundamental reasoning behind it.
    For my part, if i study a martial art i want to know all about it and connect with it at root level. I believe it's pointless otherwise.
    It's like learning another language...you can repeat the words but it's all futile unless you understand them.
    +1

  10. #30
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biaxident View Post
    The problem was, when gun powder made an appearance in the West and became entrenched. More personal forms of combat were left by the wayside. Or relegated to ceremony only. And some of it was forgotten almost completely.

    OP: It can be both.
    There is a man named Bruce Kumar Frantzis, very famous in internal chinese martial arts circles, who spent like 10-15 years living in Asia training with various masters [including Aikido's Ueshiba iirc]. I was at one of his training seminars and he talked about how the chinese had gunpowder for a long time but didn't want to weaponize it, because any wimp can pull a trigger and then didn't want to mass-institutionalize death. Two guys going at it with fists or swords, that takes skills and lots of training time. There are only so many of those kinda people around.

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