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  1. #21
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    The best way I can describe my experience with the faith and reason dichotomy is that reason tells me it is possible that something outside of the physical universe may exist, but this cannot be proven or disproven. If it does exist, I should not assume my current paradigm of the physical universe applies to the spiritual dimension. My intuition is then willing to explore the reasonable possibilities.
    I like this.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
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    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  2. #22
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Debates on faith make me want to go to sleep.
    :sad:
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  3. #23
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Sleep is the natural defense of the poriferan to predators.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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  4. #24
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Sleep is the natural defense of the poriferan to predators.
    Haha. You mean, they are defenseless.

    I just don't let such extremely cosmic questions affect my life, and as such, think there is no need to debate them.
    I'm also positive that there can be no resolve to the debate.
    I tend to feel that religious arguments can only make for bad blood between people.
    It makes me hurt mentally, and then I want to go to sleep.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  5. #25
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Haha. You mean, they are defenseless.

    I just don't let such extremely cosmic questions affect my life, and as such, think there is no need to debate them.
    I'm also positive that there can be no resolve to the debate.
    I tend to feel that religious arguments can only make for bad blood between people.
    It makes me hurt mentally, and then I want to go to sleep.
    I agree. You can never really know what goes on just beyond us, but some of us really need to understand at least partially because it guides an internal mechanism. So I suppose it's less like "learning" than "what the heck is that and why am I constantly being drawn back to it".

    If you go to sleep, you'll be helpless too. A sleepy poriferan would make a nice addition to any aquarium.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
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    AIS Holland code
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Faith really isn't that easy to find, so you don't have to be so hard on yourself.
    We're at the mercy of God really - a benevolent God, thankfully.
    The Bible says faith is a free gift from God. There's no other way to get it.
    I think it has to start with a bit of humility on our parts - which is hard.
    This was my first spiritual conundrum at a wee but terribly faithful fourteen. And I think nearly every spiritual conundrum since has had something to do with this one.

    So faith is a free gift from God. Cool. We're totally beholden to grace, and man, that's beautiful. But what about those people who don't have faith? Did God gyp them? Did God just give certain people faith? If so, is God really good?
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  7. #27
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    This was my first spiritual conundrum at a wee but terribly faithful fourteen. And I think nearly every spiritual conundrum since has had something to do with this one.

    So faith is a free gift from God. Cool. We're totally beholden to grace, and man, that's beautiful. But what about those people who don't have faith? Did God gyp them? Did God just give certain people faith? If so, is God really good?
    I know what you're saying.

    Just remember above all that God is Good.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I know what you're saying.

    Just remember above all that God is Good.
    Yeah, I've got that part. It's the rest that I can't buy.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Sandy's Avatar
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    .
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    There is truth... in the red letters

  10. #30
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    The best way I can describe my experience with the faith and reason dichotomy is that reason tells me it is possible that something outside of the physical universe may exist, but this cannot be proven or disproven. If it does exist, I should not assume my current paradigm of the physical universe applies to the spiritual dimension. My intuition is then willing to explore the reasonable possibilities.
    I was with you up until the reasonable bit. See now if God is a reasonable conclusion then why aren't advanced alien races that seeded this world long ago or some other not commonly accepted answer?
    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    I agree. You can never really know what goes on just beyond us, but some of us really need to understand at least partially because it guides an internal mechanism. So I suppose it's less like "learning" than "what the heck is that and why am I constantly being drawn back to it".
    BINGO!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    This was my first spiritual conundrum at a wee but terribly faithful fourteen. And I think nearly every spiritual conundrum since has had something to do with this one.

    So faith is a free gift from God. Cool. We're totally beholden to grace, and man, that's beautiful. But what about those people who don't have faith? Did God gyp them? Did God just give certain people faith? If so, is God really good?
    Now this question really cuts to the core of it. Not one I'd think of as I see it as I'm outside looking in and you appear to be inside looking out (and doing a mighty fine job if I might say so).

    So if there is a God and there's loads of people who can hear his call then why not me? I do look but I can't find it. Heck I've looked from as many perspectives as I can manage (hence the dislocated and eclectic thinking on the subject) but still no sign of my faith.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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