User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 29

  1. #11
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Whoa...deja vu. Bluewing, didn't we have a discussion like this in another thread not too long ago? It seems to be ending the same way. Spirituality means such different things to different people. Asking "what is spirituality?" invites so many different subjective answers.

    I am talking about the idea that I have defined as spirituality. Nevermind that word, think about the idea behind it. You can label it however, you want, though the essence of the notion will not change.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  2. #12
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    Then why for the love of god do you start a thread "what is spirituality?" when apparently you only tolerate of people to come up with your defintion of it..




    The more you argue (show me your Ti), the more patience with your ideas I'll have.

    I never implied that there was something wrong with your idea, only that is not relevant to this thread. I dont want to talk about all the things we could possibly mean by 'spirituality', I want to talk about the thing that I had in mind when I used that word in my OP. Now, you can use a different word to depict that, I could care less, so long as you keep the idea intact.

    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    I was trying to discuss something, you know like exchanging & evolving ideas[/B]... but all you seem to care about is arguing.I was trying to discuss something, you know like exchanging & evolving ideas[/B]... but all you seem to care about is arguing..
    Arguing is the most efficient way to ensure an evolution of ideas as through critical examination we will purge our thinking of erroneous notions. Thats the distinction between truth-seeking inquiry and mere fantasy. In the former only ideas that are likely to be true are good, yet anything goes in the latter.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  3. #13
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,619

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Spirituality is most properly defined as a quest for another world. This suggests, as a reasonable man would think, that the prophets experienced intuitions which transformed them from within.

    Then they went about to pass down their teachings to others. They translated their ideas into concrete symbols, something that could be more easily related to our world. Yet, the common-place folk figured that it is not the intuitions that hold transforming power, but the concrete objects and symbols the prophets allude to. Deification of scripture is the case in point. That is, how we think that every single word in the bible is divinely inspired. Or how we think there is something sacred about the wine and bread that we eat. Or how Jesus literally rose from the dead.

    This is where our spirituality turns into superstition, we worship not God but our ink and paper, and whatever notions befitted the prejudices of the prophets who taught us our religion. The biggest threat to spirituality is the Judeo-Christian anthropomorphic notion of God. God is best thought of as the greatest possible good. Yet with the Judeo-Christian religious tradition it has been reduced to no more than a powerful person. As we see in our Old Testament, such a person is far from all good, and therefore the original notion of 'God' has been lost. What is abstract to the point of ineffability, which is exactly what our great prophets experienced cannot be instantiated--it cannot be made concrete as easily as they'd have us believe. Therefore the very idea of the greatest possible good in the world becoming a person is absurd.

    This is another example of our spirituality degenerating into fables.
    A paradox.
    The other is in the house.

  4. #14
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    A paradox.
    The other is in the house.
    Very well thought out, as usual.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  5. #15
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    OMNi
    Posts
    2,790

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Spirituality is most properly defined as a quest for another world.
    My idea of spirituality isn't "otherworldly". I've always found it strange that since man's earliest days we have contemplated the idea of an afterlife, more than likely because of our fear of the unknown. Is it really that horrifying; the idea that once we die we cease to exist? Or maybe we just need some sort of judgment on the end of our days in order to justify how we lived our lives.

    The essence of spirituality as defined comes in three parts.

    1. There exist some essence of each individual beyond their physical form.
    2. There exist some supreme essence over all living things.
    3. There is some form of life or existence beyond the here and now.

    We tend to define the existence beyond our mortal coils as eternal and even though it can't be killed, it can be sullied. The choices we make in life somehow have an impact upon our soul, spirit, etc. The supreme being is usually defined as the great judge of how sullied our souls have become. So the supreme being determines whether we are worthy of transcending into the existence beyond or the consequence associated with sullying our souls. So life becomes the stage for transcendence.

    Spirituality therefore becomes the governing factor over our behavior. Why should I not kill to get what I want? Because it would sully my soul and keep God from granting me the reward of heaven. Just as a parent would be the judge of whether or not a child deserves a treat or spanking for their behavior, spirituality becomes the idea of reward or punishment for every reasonable adult's behavior.

    In that essence, spirituality plays into humanity's psychology. As animals we can be conditioned, and as humans even just the threat of harm or the promise of reward is enough for us to change how we would normally behave.

  6. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    48

    Default

    Spirituality is contemplating about whether our physical nature is the whole, or whether our physical nature is only a part of the whole. Most people refuse to believe that the mere palpable matter is all that there is to us, and as evidence they will use the examples of power of abstraction, our imagination, our Reason, our ability to meditate upon things that are much higher than our limited nature. Apostle Paul (New Test.) says "He has instilled in us the thought of eternity", while philosopher Ludwig Feuerbach asserts that the end in our ability to contemplate is the thought of God; the idea of God is an end in itself, therefore that is the highest we can climb. Whether God is in fact real we don't know, but the fact does remain that unconsciously we sort of seek an end in which we can say "I can not rise above this, therefore this exists and this is the highest".
    For those that are not ready to just simply accept the idea of God, and therefore to just call it "an end in itself" which for them would mean 'call it quits in seeking..", well those people seek whether there is more than what appears at sensorial level. In order to do so, they will attempt to analyze whether senses are in fact deceiving, and if they will arive at the conclusion that senses are in fact deceiving, that in itself will serve as some sort of evidence that perhaps there is something higher than what we merely have access to through our sensorial apparatus.
    Perhaps Reason, though flawed, yet more trustful than the senses, is more reliable and might reveal to us a reality which lies beyond the physical, a world unknown to us. On the other hand, perhaps Reason might deny that which is equivocal, and it will not declare it as being valid unless cogent arguments are offered in support of it!
    Thus you have a dichotomy in which some people "have found the answer" while others are still seeking the answer. Sadly I used to think that I am sure of the answer, until not to long ago when as Immanuel Kant says that 'when Reason gets stired in the subject, the subject realizes that he posseses the ability to speculate', and so I am still seeking....
    Can we truly find the truth about whether that other spiritual world does exist? Perhaps not while living....
    [

  7. #17

    Default

    Spirituality to me largely seems about connecting to something greater than yourself. Most associate it with the supernatural, I associate it with nature, and perhaps even to bend the definition a bit, aspects of humankind (social aspects of the collective).

  8. #18
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Spirituality is most properly defined as a quest for another world. This suggests, as a reasonable man would think, that the prophets experienced intuitions which transformed them from within.

    Then they went about to pass down their teachings to others. They translated their ideas into concrete symbols, something that could be more easily related to our world. Yet, the common-place folk figured that it is not the intuitions that hold transforming power, but the concrete objects and symbols the prophets allude to. Deification of scripture is the case in point. That is, how we think that every single word in the bible is divinely inspired. Or how we think there is something sacred about the wine and bread that we eat. Or how Jesus literally rose from the dead.

    This is where our spirituality turns into superstition, we worship not God but our ink and paper, and whatever notions befitted the prejudices of the prophets who taught us our religion. The biggest threat to spirituality is the Judeo-Christian anthropomorphic notion of God. God is best thought of as the greatest possible good. Yet with the Judeo-Christian religious tradition it has been reduced to no more than a powerful person. As we see in our Old Testament, such a person is far from all good, and therefore the original notion of 'God' has been lost. What is abstract to the point of ineffability, which is exactly what our great prophets experienced cannot be instantiated--it cannot be made concrete as easily as they'd have us believe. Therefore the very idea of the greatest possible good in the world becoming a person is absurd.

    This is another example of our spirituality degenerating into fables.
    So your complaint is that people tend to reduce the deeper understanding/meaning of something into more literal notions? Is this similar to some of the complaints of Martin Luther about the Catholic Church?

  9. #19
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    7,233

    Default

    Since I argued with you on INTPc about your OP on one point, I'll choose another to argue with you here, since, truly speaking, you're my favorite person to debate, Seahorse.

    You define spirituality as a quest for another world. That's an immature understanding, whether it's yours or not. Spirituality is not a quest for ANOTHER world, it's a way of returning to this world. "Spiritual techniques" are ways for people to shed the bullshit they accumulate over their day and over the years on account of stress, social programming, and constantly chasing something, whether that be understanding, sex, or spirituality itself, which is a fun paradox. The bullshit puts them out of touch with themselves and their surroundings as they get too caught up in perceiving their judgments of reality (this is good for me, this is bad for me) and thoughts about it (which is why I am weary of philosophy) rather than simply perceiving it as it truly is, within character of value, as it unfolds in the present moment. That's what TRULY exists in this world, not in some other world. Indeed, thinking that there's somewhere else to be ("another world") is the same thing that severs the connection to the real world, which is, simply put, constant and interminable chasing.

  10. #20
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LIND View Post
    ...Apostle Paul (New Test.) says "He has instilled in us the thought of eternity"
    Didn't you mean this? Ecclesiastes 3:11 -- He has (A)made everything [a]appropriate in its time He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man (B)will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end.

    Perhaps Reason, though flawed, yet more trustful than the senses, is more reliable and might reveal to us a reality which lies beyond the physical, a world unknown to us. On the other hand, perhaps Reason might deny that which is equivocal, and it will not declare it as being valid unless cogent arguments are offered in support of it!
    That is the rub.

    Reason can suggest things, through inductive reasoning, but it cannot prove anything because it has to make certain assumptions in order to frame its case, doesn't it?

    Can we truly find the truth about whether that other spiritual world does exist? Perhaps not while living....
    We can only "prove" something that can be observed, because proving is being able to show something is reliable/predictable. Internal experience is useful to convince an individual but cannot be transferred to anyone else wholemeal, and much of what is passed off as spiritual 'truth' cannot be shown or proven, it's a matter of choice (and thus faith).

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    You define spirituality as a quest for another world. That's an immature understanding, whether it's yours or not. Spirituality is not a quest for ANOTHER world, it's a way of returning to this world...
    That was a great point, Edahn. Thank you for reframing the question.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

Similar Threads

  1. What is Your Spiritual Belief System?
    By lightsun in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 09-29-2017, 09:59 AM
  2. What is your spiritual archetype?
    By EtaCarinae in forum Online Personality Tests
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 09-26-2017, 05:33 PM
  3. What is truth (split from post poll)
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 01-27-2013, 09:47 AM
  4. What is Philosophy?
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 01-09-2013, 09:10 PM
  5. What is the most sublime philosophical / spiritual idea or concept?
    By Synarch in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 04-14-2009, 04:05 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO