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  1. #11
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Okay so it looks like we have a few people here who could name drop a fair number of philosophers and equally quote some theories at least in title if not in full. It seems a relevant place to ask the question, what's the point?

    Realistically does the finer points of philosophy actually have any relevance any more or is it purely an exercise for the mind. Yes I understand the relevance of existentialism and so on but is there any development or is it best to just read Socrates and other's works and then leave it there. Recorded examples of brilliant thinking which alters your perceptions of what is.

    The reason I ask is because it seems like philosophy has just gotten to the school yard stage and all anyone ever does with it is try to beat others over the head with their own much more impressive philosophy.

    Surely a field such as philosophy is not about who is right but about getting closer to understanding everything. That seems lost on 90% of the philosophy I've seen and in which case what on earth is the point to it all?

    Academic philosophy has abandoned the quest for truth.

    The point of studying it has nothing to do with external achievements, but only with emendation of your mind. You ought only to share your ideas with others if this is conducive to the aforementioned task.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  2. #12
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Academic philosophy has abandoned the quest for truth.
    Is this not the branch of hermeneutics? //not argumentative, just asking//
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  3. #13
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    The study of knowedge and truth itself is called epistemology. The study of how to properly interpret the truth being conveyed in text is hermeneutics.

  4. #14
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    I think it provides a basis from which we can learn to better adapt our thinking so as to discourage bias.

    To this end, I think philosophy should be a pervasive undergarment for most academic curriculums, beginning in youth.
    I very much agree with this!

  5. #15
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I sometimes wonder if Socrates was the last great philosopher. Enlightened thinking should lead to enlightened doing. Mostly what I see out of philosophers is thinking that just leads to more thinking and talking and not a lot of doing. If a philosopher discovers what wisdom is, but does not apply it in any way then has he really discovered wisdom?
    I'm not sure that wisdom stopped with Socrates. Let's hope not anyway as despite a wonderful technique he then continued to apply it long after it was really relevant to the question. How on earth a wise man goes from the wonderful Socratic method to claiming proof of the afterlife is quite beyond me.
    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I think that exercise of the mind is just as important as anything tangible. It can help you think about things in a new way, and encourages creativity/intelligence.

    I usually try to find philosophies and ideas that bring me closer to understanding things, but it is interesting and meaningful for me to just examine philosophies.
    Whilst I concede that the exercise in itself has merit it would appear as though philosophy has moved quite dramatically away from the study of thought itself (that is a crude approximation but I'm sure you follow) to a new arena in which to drop names and claim superiority.

    Since when does it constitute wisdom to just name a load of theories as if that answers any question other than you knowing the names of theories?

    (Note I accuse no one of this, it's merely an observation of how the field is going based on the undertones of how people are discussing philosophy)
    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    The main use of philosophy, as I see it, is to deconstruct existing false beliefs that cloud our understanding of things. However, I don't expect it to give us any suitable answers.
    This I agree with 100% and this is what is depressing to me about the name dropping. How does knowing all the different theories names without ever looking at how they interact help you understand anything. It's the ever present difference between knowledge and wisdom and philosophy seems to be heading far too quickly toward the former for my liking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    I think it provides a basis from which we can learn to better adapt our thinking so as to discourage bias.

    To this end, I think philosophy should be a pervasive undergarment for most academic curriculums, beginning in youth.
    Again I agree 100%. Without understanding how perspective can shift what you can draw from an experience then you'll not learn as quickly and what's more the disciplines you lean will, to some extent, forever will be separated and disconnected from the other things you learn. I tend to think that this is why there are more and more people coming out with diplomas and whatever but with no real useful ability as it's all theoretical and disconnected. There's no understanding of the subject only regurgitation of knowledge.
    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Philosophy is one of the forces that guides the laws and technology of the land.
    Could you expend on this please? I'd be very interested to hear your reasoning.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Academic philosophy has abandoned the quest for truth.

    The point of studying it has nothing to do with external achievements, but only with emendation of your mind. You ought only to share your ideas with others if this is conducive to the aforementioned task.
    The thing that concerns me is not that philosophy has no practical application beyond the correction of the minds pathways but more that academic philosophy is purely that. Academic.
    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    The study of knowedge and truth itself is called epistemology. The study of how to properly interpret the truth being conveyed in text is hermeneutics.
    It matters not how long a title it has no how many great names are stacked behind it. Such things are mere frippery and signal the irrelevance of a subject as it descends into intellectual fashion. The only factor of any importance is relevance and application. Now you can argue the validity of anything if you try hard enough but that's failing to apply enough critical thinking to it. Personally I couldn't care less about the ins and outs of the philosophy of interpreting texts, that would be what I would refer to as a very specialised subject and hence mostly irrelevant to broader topics.

    As for epistemology, that too seems like subdividing wisdom into compartments which you specialise in. This is fine for the purposes of training and whatever but surely it is obvious that the more you subdivide wisdom and it's pathways, the more you increase the likelyhood of travelling in circles and never reaching the goals of actually getting any wiser.

    It would seem that academics are slowly killing the field. Sure we may end up with wonderful theories on how the world works which can then be taught like multiplication tables to younger generations but will be actually have any wisdom left to tackle the next challenge?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #16
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Okay so it looks like we have a few people here who could name drop a fair number of philosophers and equally quote some theories at least in title if not in full. It seems a relevant place to ask the question, what's the point?

    Realistically does the finer points of philosophy actually have any relevance any more or is it purely an exercise for the mind. Yes I understand the relevance of existentialism and so on but is there any development or is it best to just read Socrates and other's works and then leave it there. Recorded examples of brilliant thinking which alters your perceptions of what is.

    The reason I ask is because it seems like philosophy has just gotten to the school yard stage and all anyone ever does with it is try to beat others over the head with their own much more impressive philosophy.

    Surely a field such as philosophy is not about who is right but about getting closer to understanding everything. That seems lost on 90% of the philosophy I've seen and in which case what on earth is the point to it all?
    Pure philosophy is not an accomodation.
    Hence most people reject it.

    The popular philosophers did accomodate. They are printed and quoted.
    They have nothing to say.

  7. #17
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Pure philosophy is not an accomodation.
    Hence most people reject it.

    The popular philosophers did accomodate. They are printed and quoted.
    They have nothing to say.
    Meeeoww

    Which philosophers to you place most trust in?

    Personally I gave up on Descartes and Satre almost upon contact with their thinking. I think so far the only philosopher I've actually found to be wise would be Socrates but even he seemed to fall into the usual over thinking and over confidence later on.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #18
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    The thing that concerns me is not that philosophy has no practical application beyond the correction of the minds pathways but more that academic philosophy is purely that. Academic.?
    So academical philosophy does not ask the most important philosophical questions and restricts itself only to those the few academic circles are interested in? If that is what you meant, I heartily agree.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  9. #19
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    So academical philosophy does not ask the most important philosophical questions and restricts itself only to those the few academic circles are interested in? If that is what you meant, I heartily agree.
    Yes and more damning is that they appear to fail to teach the most important lessons in philosophy where they actually get students to think about something other than how to remember thirteen ancient philosophers entire works. It's depressing.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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