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Deep contemplations and still needing insight!

Antimony

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Okay! So I don't really know how to research this, so I thought I would post something on here.

I have sort of been contemplating the world, our place, etc (with Nihilistic conclusions being drawn, which I dislike a bit. Makes me feel like there is no room for progress) and would really like to hear people's opinions on spirituality, what they believe (whether you are religious with spiritual practices, or just spiritual. Or whatever the hell you believe. It may not even be spiritual. I am going to shut up now).

Not so much for religion, although I do think it would be interesting to hear your view points and why, I am just saying that the purpose is not for religion, just more so for information on spirituality and practices or beliefs.

I ask because /disclosure/ Storytime /disclosure/ my friend has a new boyfriend who knows much about the such, and also about the human body and ways of stimulating it (not necessarily sexually, but that as well. Which I also want to know about, and making someone feel good in the not so obvious ways, but I don't think this is the place to post it), and I would absolutely love it if someone could provide me some insight, because I detest being behind on information.
 

Gerbah

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You can only trust what is real. I find that spirituality is basically driven by a sincere desire to know the truth and get rid of falsehood and illusions. My impression is people often would rather have comfort and predictability rather than truth if it's difficult or involves disturbance or requires giving up something. And once you've reached certain truths, you find another layer, and it requires even more honesty and truthfulness, and you go through it again, and it never stops into infinity. I find that with certain people, they posit a certain truth or spiritual practice and maybe they recognised something true, but they stopped there. They didn't go on. Or the other danger is that the first step in the foundation of your process was faulty to begin with, so you can't go on properly, so you are also at a dead end that way.

This is my personal view anyway.
 

Antimony

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Interesting view. I honestly wasn't expecting an ISTJ to be the first to post an in depth answer.

But how do you know what is real? Is it ever possible to really know?
 

nolla

Senor Membrane
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I have sort of been contemplating the world, our place, etc (with Nihilistic conclusions being drawn, which I dislike a bit. Makes me feel like there is no room for progress)

There is room for progress. :yes: So, how do you now see the world?

I ask because /disclosure/ Storytime /disclosure/ my friend has a new boyfriend who knows much about the such, and also about the human body and ways of stimulating it (not necessarily sexually, but that as well. Which I also want to know about, and making someone feel good in the not so obvious ways, but I don't think this is the place to post it), and I would absolutely love it if someone could provide me some insight, because I detest being behind on information.

Yeah, that's called tantra. I haven't focused my studies on it but I guess the main idea is to be able to meditate and have sex at the same time. "Just forget yourself" kind of a thing...
 

Gerbah

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Interesting view. I honestly wasn't expecting an ISTJ to be the first to post an in depth answer.

I will take that as a compliment!

But how do you know what is real? Is it ever possible to really know?

I think it is not possible to know everything. Your own mind and nature would have to be the same as the infinite to be on the same level as the infinite. Only the infinite can know all of itself.

But I do think it is possible to know what is real, in the sense that A is real but B is false. Even if all you know is that you exist. You just build up what you know and put the picture together. It takes a lot of commitment. This commitment will be tested. It's also closely related to getting to know your real self. You have to be able to look confidently into your own eyes and know what you are seeing. Knowing the outside comes with knowing the inside. I find that after a while the process of getting to know more of the unknown becomes more pleasant and isn't as tortuous as it is right at the beginning.
 

Antimony

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There is room for progress. :yes: So, how do you now see the world?

Well, on one hand, when I really think about it:

1. There is no point to our living, other than to live, reproduce, etc. Nothing we do really matters in the long run, even if it affects all of humanity, because who cares?

2. Life should be a pleasurable experience for all, and even if it has no meaning in the long run, do what is correct and beneficial to the race.

Something along those lines. So either it doesn't matter, or it kind of does, as long as you are happy. I want to find something more.


Yeah, that's called tantra. I haven't focused my studies on it but I guess the main idea is to be able to meditate and have sex at the same time. "Just forget yourself" kind of a thing...

How do you do that? How interesting, though. What are your studies on?


I will take that as a compliment!

I think it is not possible to know everything. Your own mind and nature would have to be the same as the infinite to be on the same level as the infinite. Only the infinite can know all of itself.

But I do think it is possible to know what is real, in the sense that A is real but B is false. Even if all you know is that you exist. You just build up what you know and put the picture together. It takes a lot of commitment. This commitment will be tested. It's also closely related to getting to know your real self. You have to be able to look confidently into your own eyes and know what you are seeing. Knowing the outside comes with knowing the inside. I find that after a while the process of getting to know more of the unknown becomes more pleasant and isn't as tortuous as it is right at the beginning.

Good, you should take that as a compliment!

Hm. I should start figuring out what is real, sort of. This idea you have presented to me has thrown me into even more of a loop! But I appreciate being given something more to think about. I know what I see, at least. And it seems to be a good thing that I generally like the unknown, although I am obviously having some minor issues with trying to figure it all out right now.
 

Gerbah

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Yeah, as long as the basic desire to know the truth is sincere, you just follow what is interesting to you, what provokes a reaction in you, don't avoid what disturbs you and also be careful not to reject what is real just because it is too mind-blowing or not what you expected it to be or want it to be. Another part of the honesty I was talking about before.
 

Antimony

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Yeah, as long as the basic desire to know the truth is sincere, you just follow what is interesting to you, what provokes a reaction in you, don't avoid what disturbs you and also be careful not to reject what is real just because it is too mind-blowing or not what you expected it to be or want it to be. Another part of the honesty I was talking about before.

I can definitely accept the truth. I am also pretty truthful, rarely lying. It is kinda painful to lie, if unnecessary. Knowing the truth about everything would be nice. Something tells me that won't happen in one lifetime.

I am also curious as to what meditation helps with.
 

Gerbah

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I can definitely accept the truth. I am also pretty truthful, rarely lying. It is kinda painful to lie, if unnecessary.

That's a good thing. You can't connect with the truth if you put yourself apart from it by lying or behaving dishonourably. It blinds your sight to recognise it. This is why a lot of systems and religions talk about purifying yourself.

I am also curious as to what meditation helps with.

Spiritually, meditating is also basically to do with recognising and connecting with reality. Other people can probably say more about meditating that I can. There are many different types of meditation for different purposes. My own view is that it is basically a practice to help you experience reality, as opposed to just knowing about it in theory. E.g. accepting that all creation is one whole is one thing, but experiencing boundlessness and that merging is something else. If you got to a very high level you would be in that state all the time and you would not be divorced from the ultimate reality.

I would also like to say what I think about the role of religion but I don't have time right now.
 

nolla

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Well, on one hand, when I really think about it:

1. There is no point to our living, other than to live, reproduce, etc. Nothing we do really matters in the long run, even if it affects all of humanity, because who cares?

2. Life should be a pleasurable experience for all, and even if it has no meaning in the long run, do what is correct and beneficial to the race.

Something along those lines. So either it doesn't matter, or it kind of does, as long as you are happy. I want to find something more.

Both true. The thing is, you need to make your life a subjective experience instead of objective. How is your life? That's what you need to ask yourself.

How do you do that? How interesting, though. What are your studies on?

:smile: My real studies were on media, but what I was referring to was that I have a hobby of studying things... I might add tantra on the list...

I guess you can't just pick a girl from a bar "Wanna have tantra with me?", somehow I think you need to first be quite close to someone to even try it. But, yeah, I can see how it might be a mind-blow, if both of you are in a meditative state it will make the senses really sensitive. Although, I don't think it differs too much from a cuddle-marathon/slow sex combo.
 

Antimony

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I would also like to say what I think about the role of religion but I don't have time right now.

I wish you did have time :( I always figured it gave people some reason to pursue the truth. I also think that some people use it to control other people, which pisses me off :angry: :steam:



Both true. The thing is, you need to make your life a subjective experience instead of objective. How is your life? That's what you need to ask yourself.

In the end, that is what I look at :)

Until I get back to contemplating :doh:

:smile: My real studies were on media, but what I was referring to was that I have a hobby of studying things... I might add tantra on the list...

I guess you can't just pick a girl from a bar "Wanna have tantra with me?", somehow I think you need to first be quite close to someone to even try it. But, yeah, I can see how it might be a mind-blow, if both of you are in a meditative state it will make the senses really sensitive. Although, I don't think it differs too much from a cuddle-marathon/slow sex combo.

Hahaha, media? How interesting. I see what you mean now. And yes, if you are going to do something meditational/spiritual, I always imagined it would have to be with someone special.
 

nolla

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In the end, that is what I look at :)

Until I get back to contemplating :doh:

Contemplation isn't too bad... :smile: I just think it is much more useful when directed at your life in a way that makes real changes in your behavior. For example, most people would agree that it's good to be a good person and help others, but if you look at the way most people behave, you have to conclude that there are many people whose thoughts are not in sync with their actions. This is something I try to change in myself, and it is a huge task... keeps me busy... :yes:
 

Antimony

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Contemplation isn't too bad... :smile: I just think it is much more useful when directed at your life in a way that makes real changes in your behavior. For example, most people would agree that it's good to be a good person and help others, but if you look at the way most people behave, you have to conclude that there are many people whose thoughts are not in sync with their actions. This is something I try to change in myself, and it is a huge task... keeps me busy... :yes:

It isn't bad, but I dislike being unsure. I do think it makes me a better person, and I am quite good at being honest with myself. I do notice a lot of people (and I have pointed this out on many occasions to people) about them and their lack of consistency in thought and action, and words and action.
 

nolla

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It isn't bad, but I dislike being unsure.

If you can see things from several perspectives, the need for hard facts lessens. Like these two ideas:

1. There is no point to our living, other than to live, reproduce, etc. Nothing we do really matters in the long run, even if it affects all of humanity, because who cares?

2. Life should be a pleasurable experience for all, and even if it has no meaning in the long run, do what is correct and beneficial to the race.

Neither is wrong, they are just viewed slightly differently. So, they are both right but the second one is more humane because it can motivate you in a certain direction. A challenging feature in this age is that contemplation is somewhat encouraged (in schools) but it leads always to existential questions if you stay at it. Then you need to find your own meaning because spirituality is not encouraged and the popular religions either don't like people who really think about these questions, or have answers that you can easily see untrue. So, what you need to do is to choose the answers that you think will take you to the right direction. This doesn't necessarily mean that you are lying to yourself or disregarding facts. They are still there and you know them, you just choose a perspective that is more beneficial to you.
 

Antimony

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Sometimes one just kind of takes over the other, generally it is the second, but sometimes one does. Sometimes they combine, and I think 'well, doing this feels good, in the moment, and will it affect all of humanity in the long run, or even in the short run, or even me that greatly?' and I will make a decison based off of that. So far, no reagrets. But I am unsure of how long that will work.

I don't generally like large religions (no offense to anyone out there). I find myself taking what they say, breaking it down, and asking 'why'. It is like their answers lead me to more questions or me just saying 'that is damn illogical.' I do like some of Buddhism, but then I feel like pleasure should be pursued, just not in excess. When I view it, I don't really view it as a religion, because I think it is more about taking the views rather than worshipping someone.

I am rambling now.
 

Asterion

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We live to create... create more living, create more of anything and everything. Creation brings us pleasure, which is much nicer to think about than avoiding pain. *avoids intuitive leap into battles against the universe that would be hard to follow... and bordering on irrational*.

I think religion is a lot like the difference between having a music teacher, and not. A teacher can teach you how to do things right and hone your skills in the proper fashion, and give you an idea of where to go next because they've already charted the course. Without one, you are free to roam wherever you wish in the musical world, learn your own techniques, anything could happen. But you may not find the right way immediately. Religion would teach you how to be spiritual, how to grow as a person but you have to follow their path whereever it may go... I guess that's what they mean by faith. There's more to it than that of course, that's just one facet.

This tantra sounds interesting lol
 

Antimony

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We live to create... create more living, create more of anything and everything. Creation brings us pleasure, which is much nicer to think about than avoiding pain. *avoids intuitive leap into battles against the universe that would be hard to follow... and bordering on irrational*.

Irrational is perfectly acceptable in this conversation. But you bring a good point to me. *adds creation to list of things that she lives for, that she didn't pinpoint living for*

I think religion is a lot like the difference between having a music teacher, and not. A teacher can teach you how to do things right and hone your skills in the proper fashion, and give you an idea of where to go next because they've already charted the course. Without one, you are free to roam wherever you wish in the musical world, learn your own techniques, anything could happen. But you may not find the right way immediately. Religion would teach you how to be spiritual, how to grow as a person but you have to follow their path whereever it may go... I guess that's what they mean by faith. There's more to it than that of course, that's just one facet.

Hm. Well, I never have had a music teacher that I relied on heavily before, so I guess I always really have just found me own way. But I guess I would have to find which religion to look really into...although at this point, it seems more like I am developing my own kind of thing.

This tantra sounds interesting lol

Indeed :D
 

Asterion

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My mind is rather muddled... as always-
well, anyway, what we create, what we mold ourselves into is going to persist in this world to a certain extent beyond the grave, whether it be the thoughts of a loved one, the lonely obituary in the newspaper, or that brilliant theorem that you spent your whole life working on. It'll stay around for a while, your life could easily be made into a battle to see how much impact you can make... positive impact hopefully. The problem with thinking about these things, is that if you stare it directly in the eye, it will overwhelm you. But if you just peek at it, just a little, it will draw you in. It's just like solving problems, if you take on something to big, you'll despair ;)
 
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