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  1. #51
    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Of-Despair View Post
    You seem to be into spirituality Gerbah, do you mind me asking why?
    Not sure I can say why exactly. For me, it started just out of curiosity. A thought floated into my head one day of "What is the truth? Lots of people say what it is but I don't actually know for myself. I would like to know." So one question leads to others.

  2. #52
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    To Liquid Laser: I rather would like the truth. Your post got me thinking for a bit, but I really do think I would rather be enlightened, no matter how painful the truth, or how much I would really rather not know it. I don't know how I will come upon such a truth though. I would have to go out searching, I suppose. Or somehow it would just come to me haha

    To Gerbah:

    *digests like she did Liquid Laser's*

    You ask really, really good questions. They make me think, a lot. You actually make me look even more to death (not because I am depressed, but because I want to know, so badly).

    What is this Earth?
    What is this time?
    What is everything if it is naught but nothing?
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  3. #53
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    What is everything if it is naught but nothing?
    If I may quietly jump into this thread ...

    First of all, why do you think that everything is nothing, and what does nothing mean in that respect? The world is ephemeral inasmuch that our lifetime is limited and knowledge of an afterlife does not exist, including the question whether there is one. So the conclusion would be that it is reasonable to make the most of the things we can be certain of, i.e. that very limited span of time at our disposal.
    Of course this doesn't answer the question of what everything is. (At this point I want to quietly add that ontology has always been fairly obscure to me).
    It's a really interesting question to ask though ... Suffice it to say for the beginning that our world is more than nothing (not very creative or insightful, I admit), but let me ask you another question:
    Can you imagine true nothingness?
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

  4. #54
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    To Liquid Laser: I rather would like the truth. Your post got me thinking for a bit, but I really do think I would rather be enlightened, no matter how painful the truth, or how much I would really rather not know it.
    Good. That is how I feel too.

    I don't know how I will come upon such a truth though. I would have to go out searching, I suppose. Or somehow it would just come to me haha
    Both of your ideas are correct. The best way to find luck is to go out and look for some.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  5. #55
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    Faith in understanding.

  6. #56
    Senior Member paisley1's Avatar
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    It's great being in the company of ENTP's, I love how you guys attack life, full on, at a million miles an hour and are well developed critical thinkers. Hey yo!

    Everyone has touched on the problems in finding truth, and I'll just summarize the four questions that have come up so far; origin (where did we come from; cosmology), meaning (for what purpose did we come into existence), morality (how to live justly between people), and finding hope to give us a continued assurance; in keeping with the previous questions.

    I'm not a relativist, so the answers to those questions have to be correspondingly true, and as a whole, coherent. Like Liquid Laser has said though, you have to experience it, and as some of my friends have suggested, you have to identify with truth itself.

    I have experienced the truth of unity in diversity through my faith relationship with Christ. Existentially, Christ offers the answers to our origin, meaning, morality, and gives hope that assures a destiny, for me. In practicality it sounds like this: I was made by God (origin), I was made to live in a covenant relationship with God (meaning), I was made to exist within the boundaries of that relationship (morality), and Christ came to earth to live within us and give us a hope that assures an eternal destiny. Everything about it, to me, represents love and what a gift it is to be alive. Unsettling questions like what is this earth, this time, and our ultimate purpose, just dissolve away, in light of what I've experienced through knowing Christ in my life.
    "Truth stands true, independent of whether you agree with it or not."

    "Don't let what matters least, matter most."

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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    Okay! So I don't really know how to research this, so I thought I would post something on here.

    I have sort of been contemplating the world, our place, etc (with Nihilistic conclusions being drawn, which I dislike a bit. Makes me feel like there is no room for progress) and would really like to hear people's opinions on spirituality, what they believe (whether you are religious with spiritual practices, or just spiritual. Or whatever the hell you believe. It may not even be spiritual. I am going to shut up now).

    Not so much for religion, although I do think it would be interesting to hear your view points and why, I am just saying that the purpose is not for religion, just more so for information on spirituality and practices or beliefs.

    I ask because /disclosure/ Storytime /disclosure/ my friend has a new boyfriend who knows much about the such, and also about the human body and ways of stimulating it (not necessarily sexually, but that as well. Which I also want to know about, and making someone feel good in the not so obvious ways, but I don't think this is the place to post it), and I would absolutely love it if someone could provide me some insight, because I detest being behind on information.
    Not knowing where this question is leading (sounds rather sinister) I will add my 3cents. Yes it is possible to confuse spirituality with pleasure of the body and many MANY people throughout the ages have known this. It's not a great SECRET or anything. yours truly...the undercover lover

  8. #58
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avis View Post
    If I may quietly jump into this thread ...

    First of all, why do you think that everything is nothing, and what does nothing mean in that respect?
    Wait, did I say everything is nothing
    I am unsure, actually. I am just trying to figure this all out. I actually don't really think anything like that, I was just presenting an angle.

    The world is ephemeral inasmuch that our lifetime is limited and knowledge of an afterlife does not exist, including the question whether there is one. So the conclusion would be that it is reasonable to make the most of the things we can be certain of, i.e. that very limited span of time at our disposal.
    Of course this doesn't answer the question of what everything is. (At this point I want to quietly add that ontology has always been fairly obscure to me).
    It's a really interesting question to ask though ... Suffice it to say for the beginning that our world is more than nothing (not very creative or insightful, I admit), but let me ask you another question:
    Can you imagine true nothingness?
    Yeah, I suppose it is more than nothing, otherwise it wouldn't exist. But nothing is a something, I suppose. I don't know. By our definition, it is a something.

    And if I could imagine true nothingness, I wouldn't be here. I really can't. I don't understand what nothing means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feops View Post
    Faith in understanding.
    Understanding the universe?


    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    It's great being in the company of ENTP's, I love how you guys attack life, full on, at a million miles an hour and are well developed critical thinkers. Hey yo!
    Hey, thanks! I may be a critical thinker, but I seem to be having problems being articulate

    Everyone has touched on the problems in finding truth, and I'll just summarize the four questions that have come up so far; origin (where did we come from; cosmology), meaning (for what purpose did we come into existence), morality (how to live justly between people), and finding hope to give us a continued assurance; in keeping with the previous questions.

    I'm not a relativist, so the answers to those questions have to be correspondingly true, and as a whole, coherent. Like Liquid Laser has said though, you have to experience it, and as some of my friends have suggested, you have to identify with truth itself.
    Gotta find the truth first, though. But let's tackle what you have to say, which I am about to read next!

    I have experienced the truth of unity in diversity through my faith relationship with Christ.
    Curious, how did this come to be? Your faith and the truth you have experienced.

    Existentially, Christ offers the answers to our origin, meaning, morality, and gives hope that assures a destiny, for me. In practicality it sounds like this: I was made by God (origin)
    And to God you will return for judging, one day, as it is written at least.

    I was made to live in a covenant relationship with God (meaning), I was made to exist within the boundaries of that relationship (morality), and Christ came to earth to live within us and give us a hope that assures an eternal destiny.
    How do you know all this is true? I know what it says, and the basic reasons. I know Christianity offers reasons and answers, but how do you know?

    Everything about it, to me, represents love and what a gift it is to be alive. Unsettling questions like what is this earth, this time, and our ultimate purpose, just dissolve away, in light of what I've experienced through knowing Christ in my life.
    It is a gift. Whoever/whatever created me, it certainly has been a great life. But I was created to question and challenge, even that which created me.

    I can't just accept that I will die one day, and not know, just follow blindly until I have met my judging. I think of time, space, how we were created, things that make the normal human's mind spin and spin for hours. And yet, as much as I hate it, I can't not ask the questions. I want to see if I can put into some boundaries some truth, some ideas.

    Even if I don't know everything, having such a relationship doesn't make it all go away for me. In fact, if I were to follow strongly in such a relationship, the guarantee of such a passage one day would make me question it all the more. I suppose I will experience the finding of some kind of truth one day, or accept some of Christianity. But I have to read the Bible, figure out what I think is true, what ideas have been manipulated (that is the thing, there are so many interpretations and manipulations. I don't think you go to hell for every little thing. One lie you don't regret, homosexuality, being of another religion, etc)




    Quote Originally Posted by wren View Post
    Not knowing where this question is leading (sounds rather sinister) I will add my 3cents. Yes it is possible to confuse spirituality with pleasure of the body and many MANY people throughout the ages have known this. It's not a great SECRET or anything. yours truly...the undercover lover
    Haha, thank you undercover lover!

    *shrugs*

    Maybe there is something to spirituality and pleasure though.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  9. #59
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    Wait, did I say everything is nothing
    I am unsure, actually. I am just trying to figure this all out. I actually don't really think anything like that, I was just presenting an angle.
    Why I wrote that:

    What is everything if it is naught but nothing?


    Yeah, I suppose it is more than nothing, otherwise it wouldn't exist. But nothing is a something, I suppose. I don't know. By our definition, it is a something.
    Nothing is a someting inasmuch as it is a word, or a concept represented by a word - insofar I would agree; semantically though it is the opposite of any "something" there is.
    I really don't know much about this myself (but this book seems to be quite interesting). In any case perception and consciousness both are crucial as they are the only ways to experience the outer world (and not only perception, but also its interpretation).

    And if I could imagine true nothingness, I wouldn't be here. I really can't. I don't understand what nothing means.
    That's why I think that a) the number zero is one of the greatest inventions ever made and b) negation is a really interesting phenomenon (because it lets us express at least a certain degree of nothingness).

    I have often wondered: If the universe is in fact limited, what does its limit look like? Maybe a "limited universe" actually means that after the last galaxy, there simply is nothing but vacuum extending endlessly. But then again I think infinity, in its last degree, is almost as incomprehensible as nothingness.
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

  10. #60
    Senior Member paisley1's Avatar
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    How do you know all this is true? I know what it says, and the basic reasons. I know Christianity offers reasons and answers, but how do you know?
    Experiencing forgiveness and grace from the burden of my mistakes is how I have faith, and my faith is how I know. Call it a moment of realization or surrender where God met me where I was at when I was confused about life and in that moment I found identity in Christ. I had repented and I had been forgiven, and only my heart knows what freedom that is like. My faith relationship allows me even further freedom and access to question God and understand why things are as they are, set within that relationship, because I've found that God wants to know me. You rightly say God will judge, as a moral God should, but that same God came to earth to forgive everyone, and for me, that act of love epitomizes what everything is all about, how much he really wants to know us. If you're going to
    read the Bible, figure out what I think is true
    , then I encourage you to keep an open mind and to start with the gospel of John because it's easy to read. The link may help you.

    John 1 - Passage
    "Truth stands true, independent of whether you agree with it or not."

    "Don't let what matters least, matter most."

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