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  1. #31
    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    Anyways, yes, they can. So many wars are fought over what people believe. Whether it really is true or not, people have been fighting for centuries over IDEAS.
    You see this is one reason why I do not think individual personal guidance is enough and religion unnecessary (in the sense I described before, as the “correct way”). Apart from the huge issue of whether or not those individuals are perfectly or imperfectly guided, we don't only exist as individuals, we also exist as a society. This is clear, otherwise the issue of conflict/harmony between people wouldn't matter to us. Your idea, what you turn your heart to and invest yourself in, impacts your environment/society all the time. Therefore, there must be a correct guidance for society also, otherwise we wouldn't have been created as a society (if you accept that there is an Essential Existence maintaining the chain of needy and dependent things that exist, etc. all I mentioned before). And, if, as we have established, time doesn't actually exist beyond a certain facet of a part of what is in existence, as evidenced by light, we are even simultaneously connected as a species to all persons who have ever existed and will exist. So that guidance must be relevant for all people of all time. I personally cannot accept that the Essential Existence who manages the planets' orbit, the weather, etc. did not provide a similarly necessary management system and guidance for human beings to be able to one day reach the level of a just and harmonious society. Just as individuals evolve through their personal developmental levels. We are just more complicated because we have a choice. Planets don't have a choice like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    I wish we were all just light.
    This actually reminds me of something I was reading recently. I might post about it later but I have to go again now.

  2. #32
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    Okay! So I don't really know how to research this, so I thought I would post something on here.

    I have sort of been contemplating the world, our place, etc (with Nihilistic conclusions being drawn, which I dislike a bit. Makes me feel like there is no room for progress) and would really like to hear people's opinions on spirituality, what they believe (whether you are religious with spiritual practices, or just spiritual. Or whatever the hell you believe. It may not even be spiritual. I am going to shut up now).

    Not so much for religion, although I do think it would be interesting to hear your view points and why, I am just saying that the purpose is not for religion, just more so for information on spirituality and practices or beliefs.
    I'm a Christian if that makes a difference. However when talking about Truth I'd like to discuss it in a different way than a religion normally might.

    This is how a person knows how they've discovered a truth (not just a spiritual truth but any truth). A paradigm shift will happen in their brain and afterward the things they observe in the world will make a lot more sense than they used to. The key to discovering truth is to allow these paradigm shifts to happen.

    Also I want to point out that discovering truth is the opposite of confirmation bias. Confirmation bias forces reality to conform to the person's worldview. Discovering truth forces the person's worldview to conform to reality. No one wants to believe they are vulnerable to confirmation bias, but in truth we are all guilty to some extent. I try to make myself understand viewpoints that I don't initially find pleasing in order to avoid falling prey to confirmation bias.

    Also be warned that seeking Truth is dangerous. Once you discover Truth you won't be able to unlearn it. You will have to live with the consequences of what you know.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
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  3. #33
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    I love little coincidences!

    What if I work for like the CIA, and have all my records erase, and become someone who totally does not exist, and everyone's minds are erased and they know not of who I am? So ha!
    You'll have left an impact, because you exerted energy in just being, and that's going to leave a mark on the world/universe. Even if you just take up space by being born into this world, it took energy to get you there, and energy to get you out of there. It's a win win thing

    Just now figuring this out?
    Crazy is subjective, just now, you've been labelled crazy in comparison to me

    HAHA yet another coincidence! I am reading The Two Towers, was lying on my bed looking at the some violin sheet music for The Lord of the Rings, and thinking of such!

    *shifty eyes*
    Maybe I can see into your mind I really wish I had more instruments, I'm thinking of just running off to buy a piano or something. Everytime I visit those stores with pianos in them, I end up learning so much simply by making sounds.

    And LOTR has taught me a very important lesson: don't take the one ring.


    oh, and always carry rope with you, you'll never know when you'll need to tie someone up...

    Oh, I gotcha! Okay, of course I won't. I refuse to be conquered! NEVERRRR!!!!

    And you tangent because you are an ENTP. Duh!
    Or is it that I'm an ENTP because I tangent?

    If you were to follow a religion, what one would it be? I hear many good things about buddhism, I think their use of analogy and emphasis of individual thought would be worthwhile persuing.
    5 3 9

  4. #34
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    TO GERBAH:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbah View Post
    You see this is one reason why I do not think individual personal guidance is enough and religion unnecessary (in the sense I described before, as the “correct way”). Apart from the huge issue of whether or not those individuals are perfectly or imperfectly guided, we don't only exist as individuals, we also exist as a society. This is clear, otherwise the issue of conflict/harmony between people wouldn't matter to us.
    I completely agree with what you say. Everyone does have their own way of doing things, and you may not know if you are perfectly guided or not. I suppose your brain would have some idea (whether you base your beliefs off of science and logic, or love and great beings, something has to make sense to you).

    I cannot determine really what to do for society. It has always been my firm belief that unless we can mostly agree and not yell at each other in every language that religion should not be something which governs a society UNLESS it actually works.

    Your idea, what you turn your heart to and invest yourself in, impacts your environment/society all the time. Therefore, there must be a correct guidance for society also, otherwise we wouldn't have been created as a society (if you accept that there is an Essential Existence maintaining the chain of needy and dependent things that exist, etc. all I mentioned before).
    It is interesting to think that I could create something that would affect humanity for all time. Maybe there should be a set of codes for the individual/only the individual, the individual/individual in the society, and how the society/the society in and of itself should operate. And whether or not we were created that way, we ended up like that, so it is in our biology to be social

    (most of us *darts glances to INTJs)

    And, if, as we have established, time doesn't actually exist beyond a certain facet of a part of what is in existence, as evidenced by light, we are even simultaneously connected as a species to all persons who have ever existed and will exist. So that guidance must be relevant for all people of all time. I personally cannot accept that the Essential Existence who manages the planets' orbit, the weather, etc. did not provide a similarly necessary management system and guidance for human beings to be able to one day reach the level of a just and harmonious society. Just as individuals evolve through their personal developmental levels. We are just more complicated because we have a choice. Planets don't have a choice like that.
    I firmly believe that if we have an Essential Existence, it does not manage every little thing. In fact, I don't think it controls our lives. Sure, I believe in 'destinies', but in a different way. You will end up in one place, one day. It may be anyplace. Wait...I am not talking predetermined, but I am. Goddamn. I believe in free will. I believe that maybe some things are predictable (you drop an egg on Earth, it falls and breaks) and that everything is predictable, but only if you know every little factor, all at once, every decision. But that is the only way it is predictable.

    We have a choice, and science governs things like plants, animals, etc. Just like you said, their evolution. Maybe we will as a species evolve to be harmonious, but it will take many years, and there will always be people who will fight to the teeth because of new ideas. They may not know why. Maybe they are meant to be that way, maybe not. There will probably always be an opposition. How we go about it, though, is up to the individual. (I am sorry, I feel like I am making little sense )

    [quoteThis actually reminds me of something I was reading recently. I might post about it later but I have to go again now.[/QUOTE]

    Okay, please post. I would like to read about that.

    TO LIQUID LASER:


    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I'm a Christian if that makes a difference. However when talking about Truth I'd like to discuss it in a different way than a religion normally might.

    This is how a person knows how they've discovered a truth (not just a spiritual truth but any truth). A paradigm shift will happen in their brain and afterward the things they observe in the world will make a lot more sense than they used to. The key to discovering truth is to allow these paradigm shifts to happen.
    Hm. It doesn't really matter what you are, Christian or not, this is just kind of a discussion now about beliefs. But anyways, the 'hm' as to the discovering of truth. Of course, you are quite right in saying this, and it is kind of interesting to think of the shift in my mind happening.

    [quoteAlso I want to point out that discovering truth is the opposite of confirmation bias. Confirmation bias forces reality to conform to the person's worldview. Discovering truth forces the person's worldview to conform to reality. No one wants to believe they are vulnerable to confirmation bias, but in truth we are all guilty to some extent. I try to make myself understand viewpoints that I don't initially find pleasing in order to avoid falling prey to confirmation bias.

    Also be warned that seeking Truth is dangerous. Once you discover Truth you won't be able to unlearn it. You will have to live with the consequences of what you know.[/QUOTE]

    I try to make my own mind up on viewpoints. I try to look at everything from all angles. For now, I just kind of go with what seems most logical/beneficial. Somethings make sense, some do not. My goal is to figure out what does not make sense.

    And that statement makes me feel a little...hm. It makes me think a bit. Maybe it is dangerous. What if I learn such truth and don't want to know it?

    TO KING OF DESPAIR (who is crazier than I):

    Quote Originally Posted by King-Of-Despair View Post
    You'll have left an impact, because you exerted energy in just being, and that's going to leave a mark on the world/universe. Even if you just take up space by being born into this world, it took energy to get you there, and energy to get you out of there. It's a win win thing
    OPTIMISTS FTW

    Crazy is subjective, just now, you've been labelled crazy in comparison to me
    YOU are crazy compared to me

    Maybe I can see into your mind I really wish I had more instruments, I'm thinking of just running off to buy a piano or something. Everytime I visit those stores with pianos in them, I end up learning so much simply by making sounds.
    Oh, go buy one! I play the piano, but I do only improvising. For some reason, it is the one instrument where it just sounds better when I just go with my fingers rather than sheet music. Well, I do that with the violin and sometimes the clarinet, but the piano is just so fun to just go with it on! Buy one!




    oh, and always carry rope with you, you'll never know when you'll need to tie someone up...
    And make sure you have a wizard and an army of the undead. Some of those elephants would have been good too...

    Lol, tying people up


    Or is it that I'm an ENTP because I tangent?
    ENTP on a tangent?

    If you were to follow a religion, what one would it be? I hear many good things about buddhism, I think their use of analogy and emphasis of individual thought would be worthwhile persuing.
    I thoroughly enjoyed learning about Buddhism in the 7th or 8th grade, when I was like it is so completely illogical that there is a god who would screw a lot of people over. Then, later, much later, I decided that maybe he was just blown out of proportion.

    But I really like Buddhism, the branch sans worship, because I like the ideas presented, and it is really interesting to see place on the individual. Of course, I gotta have the human pleasures of life, and cutting yourself off from those is not conducive to

    A. producing some more of those little things we call babies (even though I don't think I want one...shhh)
    B. living a wholesome life. Sometimes Buddhism seems like it is about emptying.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  5. #35
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Words of wisdom.

    If you can not align yourself with spirituality and remain skeptical and reserved to the topic. Then don't!

    Seems to me, spirituality either works for you or it doesn't. If it works and makes you happy, there's a positive effect wether it's bogus or not. If it doesn't work, trying to make it work will only cause negativity.

    That's my basic view on spiritualism and humans in general.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  6. #36
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    I am not trying to make it work, really. Firstly, I really just want research on it. But I am also thinking that spirituality would work better for me, but I feel like I don't have incredibly developed/informed thoughts I guess.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  7. #37
    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    I cannot determine really what to do for society. It has always been my firm belief that unless we can mostly agree and not yell at each other in every language that religion should not be something which governs a society UNLESS it actually works.
    I agree. It should be a system that works at the same time as allowing for people to have their different beliefs. But if it is to be a spiritual system it should be in line with Reality. If it is in line with Reality, it will be perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    I firmly believe that if we have an Essential Existence, it does not manage every little thing. In fact, I don't think it controls our lives.
    Yes, I also believe that. I didn't mean by the management system that the Essential Existence controls us. More that the management system provided by the Essential Existence is right for us as It made us and doesn't leave any part of our lives aimless or valueless (so since we were given choice and responsibility the system accounts for that).

    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    We have a choice, and science governs things like plants, animals, etc. Just like you said, their evolution. Maybe we will as a species evolve to be harmonious, but it will take many years, and there will always be people who will fight to the teeth because of new ideas. They may not know why. Maybe they are meant to be that way, maybe not. There will probably always be an opposition.
    I personally believe that yes, we as a species will develop until we have become complete. If we developed until now, then I don't see why that development should stop short of the end. I think it will involve dealing with opposition because humans have consciousness and choice about whether or not to accept or reject truth.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Also be warned that seeking Truth is dangerous. Once you discover Truth you won't be able to unlearn it. You will have to live with the consequences of what you know.
    I think that's really spot on. I think also that deep down people know this so it's why they don't like to look for Truth. So they distract themselves, whether through pleasure, work, relationships, etc.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    Okay, please post. I would like to read about that.
    I read about this idea from A.H. Almaas. You can look him up on the internet. He has a certain system he came up with to recognise reality. He personally has a Sufi background but the system isn't to do with teaching a particular set of teachings, like a religion. It's more about how to figure things out for yourself, so you know for yourself. So if you are religious or not, it doesn't matter. It's just about a way that personally worked for him to sort out the filters that block you from seeing what is and to get you to know yourself. I don't personally use his system so I can't say that much about it, but I like some of his ideas and things about his approach.

    As far as I understand, he says that our true nature is light in the sense that what we are, when you bring it right down to the essentials, is awareness. So, not the physical body, the emotions or even ego consciousness and personality, we are not bounded by time and space, etc. (like light). We just believe those things because it is what we have identified with, e.g. some people place their identity (i.e. saying “I” am this or that) very much in their body and its boundaries, or their feelings or, most commonly, their ego and personality. If you want to read his work, I can highly recommend The Pearl Beyond Price – Integration of Personality into Being: An Object Relations Approach. It combines the findings of psychology, particularly object relations theory, with spirituality.

    It is interesting to me because there are very old religions that also say stuff about light, e.g. such and such person's light as existing before the world began. So it's an old idea.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    A. producing some more of those little things we call babies (even though I don't think I want one...shhh)
    Oh do have one. Mine is like my little best friend

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