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  1. #21
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Of-Despair View Post
    My mind is rather muddled... as always-
    well, anyway, what we create, what we mold ourselves into is going to persist in this world to a certain extent beyond the grave, whether it be the thoughts of a loved one, the lonely obituary in the newspaper, or that brilliant theorem that you spent your whole life working on. It'll stay around for a while, your life could easily be made into a battle to see how much impact you can make... positive impact hopefully. The problem with thinking about these things, is that if you stare it directly in the eye, it will overwhelm you. But if you just peek at it, just a little, it will draw you in. It's just like solving problems, if you take on something to big, you'll despair
    And you are the kind of despair

    Great, so if I do nothing else, I can have an obituary, unless I die lost and forgotten in some far off land, like Canada (only not really, more like Madagascar).

    But what if it motivates one more to look it directly in the eye? What if you need that kind of intimidation? I think I scare people with the impacts I hope to make hahahahha I talk about the big things, the main ideas, etc, and they are like no way can you do that.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  2. #22
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    And you are the kind of despair
    Coincidently, it appears sooooo...

    I love how that wove in there somehow

    Great, so if I do nothing else, I can have an obituary, unless I die lost and forgotten in some far off land, like Canada (only not really, more like Madagascar).
    lol, you'll still have a 'missing' notice... unless you're a hermit and you're in canada? It's highly likely that you'll be on someones mind, unless you live and die in solitude.

    But what if it motivates one more to look it directly in the eye? What if you need that kind of intimidation? I think I scare people with the impacts I hope to make hahahahha I talk about the big things, the main ideas, etc, and they are like no way can you do that.
    You must be crazy, what has the lord of the rings taught you? <-- there's another form of spirituality, lessons learned through the teachings of stories. That's what fables were afterall, stories that teach.

    It's probably right to look at your goals in that way, just not the tasks required to achieve them... ahhh, don't look down, lest you be conquered by your fears... wow, what's with all of this tangenting
    5 3 9

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    How do you do that? How interesting, though. What are your studies on?
    Its all about control. If you had a partner with "real" crazy control he could take you to that state without you even having to learn about it He could create that anticipation and know how to keep it at that state. Know when to pull back, when to give that little bit of pushing. A mental state can be driven by physical means
    Im out, its been fun

  4. #24
    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    I wish you did have time I always figured it gave people some reason to pursue the truth. I also think that some people use it to control other people, which pisses me off :steam:
    That is probably true in a lot of cases. Everyone has different motivations with their religion. If you are not following your religion purely because you think it's true, e.g. you want to control others, you're afraid of change or whatever, then obviously your intention is not spiritually sincere or pure because you're looking for something else other than truth, or maybe you want truth but your desires are mixed or you put conditions on it, etc.

    I don't think you should have to need anything though, whether religion or whatever, to pursue the truth. The truth is evident in itself, e.g. if you grew up in total isolation from any history or culture in the middle of a jungle, as a human being with a rational mind, you would still ask the same questions every human being has ever asked and observe and reflect and come to certain truths. It's natural.

    That said, beyond a certain point I think a religion becomes necessary. But let me give my definition of religion – sorry but this will take me a while, I don't want to be boring with overly long posts but I can't say this short. So here is my view.

    When you come to the point where you consciously want to take responsibility for your thinking and beliefs, I don't think religion is the first step. Because this is something from outside, to do with relating to what is not you. But you've got to deal with yourself first and foremost. I think the first step is really to take things to zero. What do I really know to be true? Not just probably or because my parents told me, etc. So you investigate and question and you will most likely in this process ask the big questions of where did I come from, what am I, right/wrong, etc.

    I find that whether or not people seek a religion depends on what conclusions they come to at this point. Pretty much all people who would describe themselves as firmly spiritual and value spirituality accept that there is something beyond their own self that exists and upon which their own existence depends, and everything else existing also depends on that Thing for its existence (I mean really existentially, not just, I depend on water and food, etc.). So that Thing is outside of the chain of needy and dependent things.

    If this is recognised, you then wonder about the nature of that Being. What is It? What's It like? And what is my relationship to It? It made me didn't It and doesn't the fact of my existence depend on It? So we have a relationship. I am not independent of it. So It is responsible for me. If It is responsible for me, It must be guiding me, as the rest of the universe is managed. Trees do their thing, animals do their thing, etc. So there must be a guidance from It for every aspect of my life. So then one would wonder, what is the correct guidance then? I see a lot of potential errors, what is the correct way? This “correct way”, i.e. the correct way for a human being to live that satisfies his/her essential human nature, in the sense as I describe above, is what I think religion is and why it is a necessary issue. Of course, you don't have to get into those questions. There a lot of people who for example are very concerned with spirituality but they think their own guidance they get personally is enough. Personally, I think that is not enough because it doesn't answer a lot of big issues, but that is my own view.

  5. #25
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Of-Despair View Post
    Coincidently, it appears sooooo...

    I love how that wove in there somehow
    I love little coincidences!

    [quote]lol, you'll still have a 'missing' notice... unless you're a hermit and you're in canada? It's highly likely that you'll be on someones mind, unless you live and die in solitude.

    What if I work for like the CIA, and have all my records erase, and become someone who totally does not exist, and everyone's minds are erased and they know not of who I am? So ha!

    You must be crazy
    Just now figuring this out?

    what has the lord of the rings taught you? <-- there's another form of spirituality, lessons learned through the teachings of stories. That's what fables were afterall, stories that teach.
    HAHA yet another coincidence! I am reading The Two Towers, was lying on my bed looking at the some violin sheet music for The Lord of the Rings, and thinking of such!

    *shifty eyes*

    And LOTR has taught me a very important lesson: don't take the one ring.

    It's probably right to look at your goals in that way, just not the tasks required to achieve them... ahhh, don't look down, lest you be conquered by your fears... wow, what's with all of this tangenting
    Oh, I gotcha! Okay, of course I won't. I refuse to be conquered! NEVERRRR!!!!

    And you tangent because you are an ENTP. Duh!
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  6. #26
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbah View Post
    That is probably true in a lot of cases. Everyone has different motivations with their religion. If you are not following your religion purely because you think it's true, e.g. you want to control others, you're afraid of change or whatever, then obviously your intention is not spiritually sincere or pure because you're looking for something else other than truth, or maybe you want truth but your desires are mixed or you put conditions on it, etc.

    I don't think you should have to need anything though, whether religion or whatever, to pursue the truth. The truth is evident in itself, e.g. if you grew up in total isolation from any history or culture in the middle of a jungle, as a human being with a rational mind, you would still ask the same questions every human being has ever asked and observe and reflect and come to certain truths. It's natural.

    That said, beyond a certain point I think a religion becomes necessary. But let me give my definition of religion – sorry but this will take me a while, I don't want to be boring with overly long posts but I can't say this short. So here is my view.
    For a huge wall of text, that went by quickly. I agree with the process that one goes through for finding religion. It is all very...logical. That is something I have issues with figuring out.

    1. There is an amazing super-being that created anything and everything and it is just beyond my grasp how it can surpass the boundaries of time and has just always existed.

    2. Somehow everything evolved from nothing that is really a something when you think about it, and it is just beyond our grasp as to how such a thing could happen.

    3. Something is just beyond our grasp period that we have no clue about.

    4. /Insert another option here, as it sometimes changes/

    I think every human (well, maybe not every human) has the inner desire to just know. Some people accept religions without question, that it has never been modified, it has not been manipulated IN ANY WAY AND THEY ARE RIGHTEOUS AND ALL MIGHTY and some people are kinda like

    I am so torn between being created by a something and being created from a nothing.


    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Its all about control. If you had a partner with "real" crazy control he could take you to that state without you even having to learn about it He could create that anticipation and know how to keep it at that state. Know when to pull back, when to give that little bit of pushing. A mental state can be driven by physical means
    Hahaha I felt a mind meltdown towards my ending statement to Gerbah, and that just made me smile

    *and now gets to thinking*
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  7. #27
    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    For a huge wall of text, that went by quickly. I agree with the process that one goes through for finding religion. It is all very...logical. That is something I have issues with figuring out.

    1. There is an amazing super-being that created anything and everything and it is just beyond my grasp how it can surpass the boundaries of time and has just always existed.
    Well, consider light. Einstein discovered that the faster something moves and gets closer to the speed of light, which is the maximum speed, time slows down, right? I'm sure you know. So for light, which moves at the maximum speed, time is the minimum speed, i.e. no time. It is forever young. Things can only age in time. But the light you see that came from a star is the same age as it “was” when it reflected off the star, which could be dead by now. Light is already something that exists within the apparent reality and is dependent for its existence on the Essential Existence. So if something It created can be outside of time, even within time, It Itself can surely be independent of time also.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    4. /Insert another option here, as it sometimes changes/
    Yeah, sometimes you have to juggle with working hypotheses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    I think every human (well, maybe not every human) has the inner desire to just know. Some people accept religions without question, that it has never been modified, it has not been manipulated IN ANY WAY AND THEY ARE RIGHTEOUS AND ALL MIGHTY and some people are kinda like
    Yes, that's annoying when they get uppity about it. Of course, every person is somehow convinced by the rightness of what they're doing or they wouldn't be doing it. At some point, you make a decision. But it is pointless to annoy people by trying to push them or tell them what to do, especially because spirituality and ideology is to do with your personal relationship to what created you, so it isn't anyone's business really to tell you what to do about it unless you want to share it or ask. Some people can get very aggressive with their missionising (is that a word?).

    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    I am so torn between being created by a something and being created from a nothing.
    But either way you seem to be sure that you are created? Don't the two come to the same thing? i.e. something created you and before that happened you were nothing, you didn't exist.

  8. #28
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbah View Post
    Well, consider light. Einstein discovered that the faster something moves and gets closer to the speed of light, which is the maximum speed, time slows down, right? I'm sure you know. So for light, which moves at the maximum speed, time is the minimum speed, i.e. no time. It is forever young. Things can only age in time. But the light you see that came from a star is the same age as it “was” when it reflected off the star, which could be dead by now. Light is already something that exists within the apparent reality and is dependent for its existence on the Essential Existence. So if something It created can be outside of time, even within time, It Itself can surely be independent of time also.
    *goes off to worship light*

    Lol just kidding, but really, that is yet another good point!

    *starts thinking about time*

    Time is really interesting. Hmmmm, so if it is created outside of time, in fact is independent of time...then maybe that does explain how something could be regardless of time. Time is just a measurement, but one I am quite fond of using.

    Yes, that's annoying when they get uppity about it. Of course, every person is somehow convinced by the rightness of what they're doing or they wouldn't be doing it.
    I know they wouldn't. And yet, it is so annoying. I think it doesn't matter what a person's views are, really. Well, it sort of does (such as if they think we should be killed with giant meatballs). But really, when I figure all this out one day, I shall never shove it down someone's throat.

    At some point, you make a decision. But it is pointless to annoy people by trying to push them or tell them what to do, especially because spirituality and ideology is to do with your personal relationship to what created you, so it isn't anyone's business really to tell you what to do about it unless you want to share it or ask. Some people can get very aggressive with their missionising (is that a word?).
    IT IS NOW! *adds to dictionary on computer*

    Anyways, yes, they can. So many wars are fought over what people believe. Whether it really is true or not, people have been fighting for centuries over IDEAS.

    But either way you seem to be sure that you are created? Don't the two come to the same thing? i.e. something created you and before that happened you were nothing, you didn't exist.

    Well...hmmmmm. Damn it! Another question! What if I created everything? Wouldn't that be interesting? Too bad I can't remember everything. Does anything even exist? Where are we? And why do we have time? Does time even exist/matter to anything? I wish we were all just light.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  9. #29
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    I have sort of been contemplating the world, our place, etc (with Nihilistic conclusions being drawn, which I dislike a bit. Makes me feel like there is no room for progress) and would really like to hear people's opinions on spirituality, what they believe (whether you are religious with spiritual practices, or just spiritual. Or whatever the hell you believe. It may not even be spiritual. I am going to shut up now).
    I have been thinking about this sort of thing lately too.

    It can be a little frustrating that some people are not willing to agree on each others spiritual beliefs... But on the other hand! What's the point in agreeing with any belief in the first place? You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

    IMO, spiritually is too focused on fantasy like ideals. All spiritual beliefs are driven by the ego. All spiritual beliefs are based on a goal to better oneself, to end chaos, and bring peace to all of humanity. It's OK for some to believe that when you die, you go to heaven, or hell, or where ever, it's your fantasy...

    Spiritually, I don't even know which belief is right or wrong, but from what I can remember, I believe it was black before I was born. How about you?
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  10. #30
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prototype View Post
    I have been thinking about this sort of thing lately too.

    It can be a little frustrating that some people are not willing to agree on each others spiritual beliefs... But on the other hand! What's the point in agreeing with any belief in the first place? You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
    You are, if you view it that way. I, however, think that my contemplations won't lead me into any worse of a place or situation than I am now. The most it does is make me sit around and think.

    IMO, spiritually is too focused on fantasy like ideals. All spiritual beliefs are driven by the ego. All spiritual beliefs are based on a goal to better oneself, to end chaos, and bring peace to all of humanity. It's OK for some to believe that when you die, you go to heaven, or hell, or where ever, it's your fantasy...
    That may be true for a lot of people, but what have we if not our ego, our sense of self? Now, ending chaos, peace to humanity, I know that stuff isn't going to happen, nor do I care for it to, nor do I think of a way for that to happen. I do not focus my beliefs on ideals. Rather, I try to think about what I want ideally (not like the fantasy ideals) and the facts.

    I know for a fact that meditation makes my mind stop racing. I like that. I think it makes me a smoother thinker, so I practice it.

    Spiritually, I don't even know which belief is right or wrong, but from what I can remember, I believe it was black before I was born. How about you?

    Of course no one knows right and wrong with beliefs. They may think they know, but what is true to oneself is true to oneself. For one a certain belief may be right for them, but not for another. I guess it is about your views.

    And I have no recollection of what was before I was born.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

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