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Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill'

S

Sniffles

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A new report by the leading charity – backed by a legal opinion from a leading QC – says the Bill will make it impossible for all churches and faith-based charities to insist that their senior staff lead private lives in accordance with their religious beliefs.

CARE said that, under the Bill, which will be considered by the House of Lords on Monday, it would be illegal for a Christian charity to sack a senior manager for adultery or living an openly gay lifestyle.

The same rules would, it added, apply to Muslim and Jewish churches and charities.

However, the biggest potential showdown is likely to be between the government and Britain's 4.3 million Catholics over the church's tradition of an all-male, celibate priesthood.

Previous legislation in 2007, also backed by Ms Harman, the Commons Leader and equality minister, forced the closure of two Catholic adoption agencies for refusing to comply with new laws requiring them to place children with gay couples.

CARE's report – A Little Bit Against Discrimination? – warns that the proposals contained in the Bill are a serious threat to religious liberty in Britain.

John Bowers QC said in a legal opinion for CARE that the Bill could make it unlawful for a church to require a priest or minister to be male, celibate and unmarried, or not in a civil partnership.

Catholic ban on women priests 'illegal under Harriet Harman equality bill' - Telegraph

So this means that the Catholic Relief Act of 1829 is now null and void?
 
S

Sniffles

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Well it's not the first time the English government sought to interfere with church affairs:
[youtube="TZuc_fdMe64"]Sir Thomas More speaks out[/youtube]
"The indictment is grounded in an Act of Parliament which is directly repugnant to the Law of God, the supreme government of which, or of any part whereof, may no temporal prince presume by any law to take upon him, as rightfully belonging to the See of Rome, a spiritual preeminence by the mouth of our savior himself, personally present upon the earth, only to St. Peter and his successors, bishops of the same see, by special prerogative granted; it is therefore in law amongst Christian men insufficient to charge any Christian man. And more to this the immunity of the Church is promised both in Magna Carta and the King's own Coronation Oath!"
 

miss fortune

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I've never gotten WHY religions seem to think that women are less holy or something than men are... it's not like we get to CHOOSE what gender we are or anything :thelook:

I'm supportive of the idea of women becoming priests, or for that sake priests getting married, or finding the same sex love of their life or whatever... as long as they're good priests and they're not molesting children or taking bribes or killing people or something else that's obviously illegal, their personal lives are just that- THEIR personal lives :)
 

BlackCat

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They're smart for doing this. I'm sure that God didn't create every human equally. He wants certain people to not be able to move up in their religious life; and wants certain people to be discriminated against. It would be sacrilege to allow women, who are only different based on reproductive organs, to be able to be a priest. Their logic just makes sense, no?

I'm being sarcastic if you can't tell. Their logic is kind of ridiculous, it makes fun of itself when I read it.
 
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Sniffles

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:thinking:

I've never gotten WHY religions seem to think that women are less holy or something than men are... it's not like we get to CHOOSE what gender we are or anything :thelook:
There are female saints and doctors of the Church.
 

Jeffster

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They're smart for doing this. I'm sure that God didn't create every human equally. He wants certain people to not be able to move up in their religious life; and wants certain people to be discriminated against. It would be sacrilege to allow women, who are only different based on reproductive organs, to be able to be a priest. Their logic just makes sense, no?

You're completely missing the point. It's one thing if you're the member of a church to push for what you believe should be the proper policies of that church. It's another for government to take away people's religious liberties by setting those policies for them.
 

Ivy

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:thinking:

I've never gotten WHY religions seem to think that women are less holy or something than men are... it's not like we get to CHOOSE what gender we are or anything :thelook:

I'm supportive of the idea of women becoming priests, or for that sake priests getting married, or finding the same sex love of their life or whatever... as long as they're good priests and they're not molesting children or taking bribes or killing people or something else that's obviously illegal, their personal lives are just that- THEIR personal lives :)

Women can be priests, just not in the Catholic church. Plenty of male priests leave the Catholic church for the Anglican church if they want to get married- and plenty of women who want to become priests also become Anglican. (Or one of the other traditions that allows women in the clergy.)

I may not agree with the Catholic church's viewpoint on this, but I sure don't want the government stepping in to change it by force.
 

miss fortune

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There are female saints and doctors of the Church.

but females are still closed off from becoming priests, cardinals, the pope... its not fair- it's like saying "well, women can become the richest person in the country, and they can own companies, but they can't run for congress or be elected president"

exclusion from the high ranking positions is a form of discrimination- there's aspects of catholicism that I like, but I can't overlook the discrimination against women in ranking positions- that's pretty unforgivable in my book :steam:
 

BlackCat

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You're completely missing the point. It's one thing if you're the member of a church to push for what you believe should be the proper policies of that church. It's another for government to take away people's religious liberties by setting those policies for them.

I was being sarcastic. What they have done is totally ridiculous. Their logic just seems to make fun of itself if you lay it out.
 

miss fortune

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Women can be priests, just not in the Catholic church. Plenty of male priests leave the Catholic church for the Anglican church if they want to get married- and plenty of women who want to become priests also become Anglican. (Or one of the other traditions that allows women in the clergy.)

I may not agree with the Catholic church's viewpoint on this, but I sure don't want the government stepping in to change it by force.

not saying that the govt should change it

just saying that I can't respect a church that would penalize me based on how I was born

I can't respect something that doesn't respect me :)
 
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Sniffles

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but females are still closed off from becoming priests, cardinals, the pope... its not fair- it's like saying "well, women can become the richest person in the country, and they can own companies, but they can't run for congress or be elected president"

exclusion from the high ranking positions is a form of discrimination- there's aspects of catholicism that I like, but I can't overlook the discrimination against women in ranking positions- that's pretty unforgivable in my book :steam:

Then send your complaints to Christ, since it's upon his example and teachings the Church declares female priests impossible.
 

Halla74

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DISCLAIMER:
No offense to you at all Peguy, seriously, I respect you very much.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding the OP...
What about post-operative transexuals?
Seriously.

I think the Catholic church needs to get a clue.

I was raised Roman Catholic, albeit in a military family, so the whole "thou shalt not kill" concept was always understood to be coupled with a rider of "unless it is with an M-16."

How can priests be expected to be capable of giving counsel to their parishoners, especially with regard to being a good husband, or a good father, if they are not allowed to make that journey themselves?

Who says that the perspective of women is not needed by people seeking spiritual guidance?

In my opinion, accepting marital advice, or advice on fatherhood from a man who has never been married or shouldered the workload of a husband/father is incomplete at best.

I equivocate that to needing advice while running a fission reactor, and seeking it from physicist who in theory knows hiow ones works but who has never sat at the control panel of the reactor. :doh:

After Cardinal Law and the Boston Archdiocese scandal the Catholic church lost ALOT of credibility in my eyes. As an organization, they are beleaguered with outdated rules, practices, and customs, and continue to allow the church to be run by a bunch of narrow minded greedy old men.

Organized religion is just a sore topic for me. Any time I hear of it beyond the local level it seems to be more and more problematic than beneficial.
 

JocktheMotie

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If Jesus really said "no women allowed!" then he's a dumbass and nobody should listen to him anyways.
 

lowtech redneck

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:thinking:

I've never gotten WHY religions seem to think that women are less holy or something than men are... it's not like we get to CHOOSE what gender we are or anything :thelook:

I'm supportive of the idea of women becoming priests, or for that sake priests getting married, or finding the same sex love of their life or whatever... as long as they're good priests and they're not molesting children or taking bribes or killing people or something else that's obviously illegal, their personal lives are just that- THEIR personal lives :)

All of that is irrelevant; the above laws are an unconscionable and indefensible violation of religious liberty.
 

BlackCat

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just saying that I can't respect a church that would penalize me based on how I was born

I can't respect something that doesn't respect me :)

I can't respect something that doesn't respect women either. Seems ignorant.

It seems like anybody using SOME common sense could realize how dumb it is. It's just more trouble to discriminate based on gender. More priests = more members, right? Also other women seeing the female leader figure would feel more comfortable.

Fail.
 
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