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  1. #101
    Sniffles
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    And what about the "Forgotten Australians" Victor? Hmmmn....what about them? At the very least are you going to do the honest thing and retract your statement denying they were abused?

    You stated:
    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    But I would like to correct the record.

    There were a couple of thousand, certainly not 500,000, brought to Australia for a better life.

    Many were properly cared for and did achieve a better life here. And although they could choose to return home by paid passage, most chose to stay.
    Sorry but history tells a slightly different story:
    The people who identify as Forgotten Australians are generally now aged from around 40 up. They are the survivors of the roughly 500,000 children who found themselves in orphanages or Homes in the 20th century, between 1930 and 1970.

    All these children suffered from deep and lasting feelings of abandonment. The loss of family, including usually separation from siblings, caused grief, feelings of isolation, guilt, self-blame and confusion about their identity.

    The Senate report also revealed a history of neglect and cruelty by institutional staff and management, of abandonment and exploitation that have left at least half a million Australians, as well as many child migrants, physically and psychologically scarred.

    Physical deprivation was common. Children were cold and hungry. Hard physical work was part of their daily lives. Particularly demeaning and very difficult tasks were given as punishments.

    Who are the Forgotten Australians?
    And then the official report by the Austrialian Parliament states: "Such abuse and assault was widespread across institutions, across States and across the government, religious and other care providers."

    And yet for some odd reason you only wish to focus in on Catholic priests, and ignore these ugly facts.

  2. #102
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Come on, you must know some Latin other than "tu quoque"

  3. #103
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    And what about the "Forgotten Australians" Victor? Hmmmn....what about them? At the very least are you going to do the honest thing and retract your statement denying they were abused?
    The problem we have, Peguy, is that I have promised the moderators not to engage in contretemps with you.

    So I read all your posts and I am interested in what you have to say, and of course I am interested in how you say it as this reveals your feeling state at the time.

    But alas, Peguy, contretemps are off limits.

  4. #104
    Sniffles
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    ahhh that's too bad.

  5. #105
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    So the state is the ultimate authority now is it?
    No but it definatly trumps religion.

    The ultimate authority for an individual is their own judgement in my opinion.
    "I'd never die for my beliefs, I might be wrong"

    "Is it not enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairys at the bottom of it too"

    "Intelligence is being able to hold too opposing views in the mind at the one time without going crazy" - Now all I need to figure out is if I'm intelligent or crazy!

  6. #106
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    If I'd posted either of the two posts that you've posted I'd be embarrassed, leave these up here sure and come back in 2012 or a bit there after and see what you think then will you?

    I'm not going to argue with ignorance when its as easy as what it is to get access to libraries or books.
    Please enlighten me then!
    "I'd never die for my beliefs, I might be wrong"

    "Is it not enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairys at the bottom of it too"

    "Intelligence is being able to hold too opposing views in the mind at the one time without going crazy" - Now all I need to figure out is if I'm intelligent or crazy!

  7. #107
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelric View Post
    I'll say right up front that I'm not religious, so take that as you may. But this argument seems incredibly specious. That's like saying "Women can do *almost* anything they want to for a living -- well, unless they want a career outside the home. That's for men." It doesn't mean that making an "allowed" choice isn't a good one, but it *is* a restriction of employment based solely on gender. In any other context, that's called sexual discrimination. And isn't sainthood generally only a posthumous thing?

    Religion in general seems to "benefit" (and I use the term loosely, if not sarcastically) from a huge double standard here. Say that I were to start an organization focused on counseling, history, charity, and social activities and put meeting places in neighborhoods all over the country. Then say I were to dictate that the head of each and every one of these local groups, as well as every decision-maker in the administrative hierarchy, *must* be a man, no questions, no exceptions, irrespective of other qualifications, because men and women have different biological roles. I'd get raked through the coals, quite likely sued into oblivion, and potentially prosecuted. Yet religions get a pass on this (granted, there are many that don't adhere to this these days). Why?


    Thank you Kelric!

    Thats Lark was the point I was trying to make.
    "I'd never die for my beliefs, I might be wrong"

    "Is it not enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairys at the bottom of it too"

    "Intelligence is being able to hold too opposing views in the mind at the one time without going crazy" - Now all I need to figure out is if I'm intelligent or crazy!

  8. #108
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    It's a good point. If the church operated on an all-volunteer basis (as many other religious organizations do, btw) it would be one thing, but once business gets added to the mix with official employment and salaries and benefits, it gets sketchy to claim religious exemption from discrimination laws.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  9. #109
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJ99 View Post
    No but it definatly trumps religion.
    How so? The state derives its authority from God, who is the author of the order of being. Henry de Bracton even explained that English common law was based upon the concept of the king ruling the realm on the behalf of Christ. Centuries later, Richard Hooker(in citing St. Thomas Aquinas) noted that divine law and human law could not be seperated but were rather twins. And a vibrant sense of religiousity is key to the long-term longevity of any polity.

    Without reference to a higher authority(God, providence, etc), the state rules basically by mere arbitrary might and thus anything it does is pretty much alright. Under such a system, you cannot have the concept of "Civil Rights"; for as Martin Luther King Jr. pointed out clearly that they can only exist once you acknowledge that "any law that violates the laws of God is an unjust law." Like Hooker, this is also based upon St. Thomas Aquinas.

  10. #110
    Senior Member wank's Avatar
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    1Cr 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
    1Cr 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
    Everyone is a case study.

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