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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    God sent His own son to die for us. If that's not love, then everything I know about love is wrong.
    Then everything you know about love is wrong.

    For we are told that the beginning of wisdom is the fear of God, and yet in the same breath we are commanded to love the Lord thy God.

    We are commanded to love someone we fear. This is precisely what a child abuser does. So it is no surprise that the Father tortured His own Son to death.

    What is surprising is that you confuse love with child abuse.

    But perhaps we shouldn't be surprised for evidence is coming out of History Departments that your Church has been abusing children and covering it up not for the last sixty years but for the last one thousand years.

    This is unbearable for you to face so naturally you avoid it by calling child abuse, love.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Then again, since he's God and can do literally anything, he could have just arbitrarily forgiven us. It's painted as this great and painful sacrifice, this horribly difficult choice that God was forced into but chose us over his own son because he loves us that much, but that's under the assumption that God couldn't just change the conditions necessitating that a sacrifice be made.

    Why couldn't he just say, "You know what guys? You've been bad kids, but I forgive you. After all, I am God!"

    What external force imposed the condition that a sacrifice must be made in order to forgive human sins? Where does that condition come from and why couldn't God just decide to forgive us without a sacrifice? I mean, he's GOD; he can change any conditions into any other conditions at will.


    "Well, son...you've really been bad this time. I think I can forgive you, because I love you, but...I'll have to crucify your brother first."

    Wouldn't a truly eternally forgiving God just forgive us anyway without killing innocent people?
    +1

    And if he REALLY loved us, this almighty God would provide us all with an infinite supply of new Zelda games, multiple orgasms, and green apple Jolly Ranchers.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Then again, since he's God and can do literally anything, he could have just arbitrarily forgiven us. It's painted as this great and painful sacrifice, this horribly difficult choice that God was forced into but chose us over his own son because he loves us that much, but that's under the assumption that God couldn't just change the conditions necessitating that a sacrifice be made.

    Why couldn't he just say, "You know what guys? You've been bad kids, but I forgive you. After all, I am God!"

    What external force imposed the condition that a sacrifice must be made in order to forgive human sins? Where does that condition come from and why couldn't God just decide to forgive us without a sacrifice? I mean, he's GOD; he can change any conditions into any other conditions at will.


    "Well, son...you've really been bad this time. I think I can forgive you, because I love you, but...I'll have to crucify your brother first."

    Wouldn't a truly eternally forgiving God just forgive us anyway without killing innocent people?
    Well your problem is you are humanizing God, and everything typed here is irrelevant.


    Also, if I seriously regard all belief as trance, then I should accept I am always in a trance, which is ridiculous. I suppose that we are free to believe anything about yourself, including that I am an orange. This kind of belief stems from modernist relativism where we doubt everything we have, and if ultimately self destructive in its deductions.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
    This kind of belief stems from modernist relativism where we doubt everything we have, and if ultimately self destructive in its deductions.
    I recommend checking out Fulton Sheen
    I think it was Descartes who said doubt is a way to discovery.

    And the Most Reverend Archbishop, Fulton John Sheen, said not one word against the crimes of organised, child, sexual abuse within the very institution he was responsible for.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I think it was Descartes who suggested we doubt as a way to discovery.

    And Bishop Fulton Sheen said not one thing against the crime of organised, child, sexual abuse within the very institution he was responsible for.

    In fact no Bishop has had his day in Court.

    Why is this?
    Sure, doubt is necessary for faith... doubt encourages reason. That doesn't explain the absurdity of relativist deductions. I'm not defending the Catholic Church either, and what we are talking about has nothing to do with the literal Church. Sheen was not discussing that because it had nothing to do with the subject of that show. He usually discusses something related to philosophy and the main idea of the show was to bring it to the common man.

    YouTube - CatholicClips's Channel

    That link might be more relevant to this thread based on the OP.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
    Sheen was not discussing that because it had nothing to do with the subject of that show.
    The Most Reverend Archbishop, Fulton John Sheen, deliberately covered up the crimes of organised, child rape to save the institution from scandal and to preserve the assets of the Church.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    +1

    And if he REALLY loved us, this almighty God would provide us all with an infinite supply of new Zelda games, multiple orgasms, and green apple Jolly Ranchers.



    I dont agree with your point but I like the way you make it. Green apple jolly ranchers? I dont know what they are but assume they're as good as the other two things.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen deliberately covered up the crimes of organised, child rape to save the institution from scandal and to preserve the assets of the Church.
    Hahaha I can tell you are just trying to be a troll, but here is a good quote from him

    "There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church" - Fulton Sheen

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen deliberately covered up the crimes of organised, child rape to save the institution from scandal and to preserve the assets of the Church.
    And in doing so he was doing just the same thing as others in other institutions with the same priorities and decisions to make have done, you seen Sleepers? Based on real events, not an RC insititution.

    I always think its cute when people seize upon the abuse that occured in RC institutions, most abuse happens in the home, its more than likely someone known to the victim and closely related to them and of the abuse that does occure in institutional settings its not restricted in any way to the relgious ones. There's nothing about religiousity which dictates either abuse or cover ups, nothing unique to religious mindsets which demands that.

    Although lets disect why abuse is wrong, its because its a violation of trust, often an unconscientable corruption of authority and its harmful and those things are considered wrong as a consequence of the morality which has evolved and been handed down to today from past generations.

    The origins of that morality? Wait... Dont tell me...

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I think it was Descartes who said doubt is a way to discovery.

    And The Most Reverend Archbishop Fulton John Sheen said not one word against the crimes of organised, child, sexual abuse within the very institution he was responsible for.
    Yeah, Descartes also set up a tragic mind-body dualism which has entered into the collective psyche of the west and makes for alienation and illness, its fundamentally different in asiatic countries were the dualism doesnt exist and doctrines like Zen instead encourage holistic consciousness.

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