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is God sadistic??? Or is it just me?

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GirlAmerica

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I am going to add something just very basic, but was very powerful in hearing it.

What other carpenter's name do you know from over 2000 years ago?
(...that a book was written about/based on the existance of...that has spread across the globe and important enough to spark cultures/countries in to full blown wars?)

It really is very complicated, yet very simple.
 
G

GirlAmerica

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FYI, even accepting an absolutely biblical perspective, the idea of eternal torture is debatable. There are some (including myself) that view hell as more or less equivalent to death and not some kind of eternal torture.

Yes...this is a good point to ponder. Even Jesus in the Garden of Gesthemane trembled in fear and fell to his knees with the understanding of being completely separated from The Father during the time leading up to his crucification.......
 

Dom

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So I have been lost to say the least. Lost in life at the moment, there was a time when I thought that I knew where I was going and what the path before me held. A time when my faith was strong and my belief cemented. But over the course of the last year I have had some questions and some doubts and there is so much that I don't understand that I feel I should understand.

I mean is God sadistic? I'm serious.


I look at various quotes in the Bible.

You did not chose me I have chosen you

I will not give you more than you can handle

I knew you before you were born, planned you and i know your life.

(adlibed I know)


As I apply these to my life I feel betrayed by God. Seriously hurt and bitter and I don't trust him. Because while I have the right to choose and I chose, I chose wrong and I failed and um God knew it too yet he still allowed for me to fail. And apparently his reasoning in this is to bring us closer to him.

Wait back um I think in my mind, you want me closer to you so you set me up for failure and you know what I am gonna do and it's not working. This baffles me, he is supposedly my heavenly father who loves me more than anything and more than I love my children, but I wouldn't set them up to fail just so they would need me more.

Do I set a candy bar on the coffee table and tell them not to eat it and then condemn them when they eat it, No I don't set them up to fail.

To me this theory isn't simple it's sadistic

Am I missing something here? Apparently my life was to set me up to need God more and it's done the opposite b/c I don't trust him at all..... yet he knew this and still he allowed it......

Hunny, a clavainist theology does lead to god being a sadistic bastard, it's why i couldn't deal with it, the paraphrases you refer to are just that, they aren't accurate. God has a plan but i do not belive his plan involves bad for us, or didn't believe that.

I spent a long time in a church and i was in the leadership and i did many mental cartwheels and alot of bible study and decided the calavanistic, it's all planned fatalisic view of god had to be false...

How can i deserve death when god created me knowing i would fail?

Sure he could know i was likely to, but for me to HAVE to fail, it had to be his design fault...

I also decided that for me to have free will and thus be held totaly responsible for my actions (as i shoudl be) then he couldn't know what i'll choose to do...

anyway the calvanistic aproach would suggest suffering is sent by god to temper our character and teach us how to be, this too is either wrong, or he is not a god i want to worship... did a loving god really send my stepdad cancer to teach me and my family something?

I don't believe he did...

Shit happens cos we live in an in perfect world, it was perfect, and god gave it to his most creative project man, we had authority over it in genisis, when we messed up it fell with us...

shit happens cos stuff is broken... God will turn the shit to good, where we work in concert with him, but the shit is not sent by god....
 

sassafrassquatch

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I am going to add something just very basic, but was very powerful in hearing it.

What other carpenter's name do you know from over 2000 years ago?
(...that a book was written about/based on the existance of...that has spread across the globe and important enough to spark cultures/countries in to full blown wars?)

It really is very complicated, yet very simple.

You're assuming he even existed.

Historicity of Jesus @ Internet Infidels
 
G

GirlAmerica

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He did exist. There is documentation in that period of time where he was kept an eye on by the local 'law enforcement'. It is noted in more than one culture. I am going to say Roman and Greek....though I am just recalling from memory.
They noted him at the time with others who were considered mystic types...who had a following of people claiming certain things and logs were kept of their where abouts and concerns regarding them etc.
He did indeed exist. The context of his existance what is up for debate.
 

Roger Mexico

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I am going to add something just very basic, but was very powerful in hearing it.

What other carpenter's name do you know from over 2000 years ago?
(...that a book was written about/based on the existance of...that has spread across the globe and important enough to spark cultures/countries in to full blown wars?)

It really is very complicated, yet very simple.

And this proves what, exactly?
 
G

GirlAmerica

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Truly, it proves NOTHING. However, just the simple fact of it can speak volumes. There are going to be people who can and will dispell anything put down about this. There are going to be people who can take small pieces and possibly that particular fact speaks to them.

Personally, it carried depth and meaning to me.....so I took the time to share it. Period.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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And this proves what, exactly?

It may not prove anything about the existence of God, but it actually does show that there is something to Christianity. It basically started as a small radical Jewish sect and now has grown into the largest religion in the world. That wouldn't happen if there was not something to it.
 

samIam

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I would suggest that God does not know everything due to limits imposed on himself by allowing human free will. He is only aware of the infinite combinations of variables. He does not know if you will choose to eat Wheaties or Cheerios for breakfast, only that your previous breakfast history and current nutritional requirements indicate that you will mose likely choose Wheaties. The choice is yours.

19 more to go? :)

God knows everything ...God doesn't know everything. It doesn’t matter and changes nothing. Even if we ignore Proverbs 16:4 "The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." and 2Thessalonians 2:11-12
"God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned."

If the Biblical god does not know if a person is going to heaven or hell he is still sadistic and here’s why.


This biblical God created man because he was lonely. He wanted company. After a long history of betrayal and lies by man, god sets up some rules for man. He says violaters of the rules will be condemned to death/everlasting fire blah blah blah...

Scary. If God were standing next to me in the flesh/physical world/visual image then I would surely abide by all the rules. There would be no doubt of his existence or punishment.


But that's too easy for his creation. He needs a challenge.

So God decides, instead of being there as a constant reminder that he will vanish. But how will man know the rules?

God will send other men, you know the liars, cheaters, betrayers, etc etc.. to deliver his message. Of course there will be other men with other claims and other rules but man should figure it out right? You better hope so because if you believe in the wrong God or the wrong set of rules you will surely be condemned to death/everlasting fire blah blah blah... you know the guys described in Genesis 6:7 "And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."

Well just to make things more difficult, he decides there will be no identifying markings on these men, nor will there be any intuitive lie detection ability accurate at 100% given to any man. In fact there wont be any way to tell the difference between the good liars and the men with the real word.

hmm.. this is starting to get more complicated. But wait there’s more.

Instead of having these men deliver their message at once. It somehow seems better to have these men deliver the messages in small pieces, scattered over thousands of years. One man one year tells a story then 100 or 200 years later another man will tell a story.

There will be many more men and many more stories that are untrue but man should be able to figure it out. Maybe too easy... So to further complicate things lets have a bunch of men vote on which stories to include in the official rule book. Then, lets have them include a bunch of stories that contradict each other.


That should really mess them up.


Woooooo hooooo this whole create man thing is turning out to be great!


Now that's sadistic.

I would admire him or her if god were real. I like him/her!

Do you really want me to list 19 more? I could and I won't even include the 3 included at the beginning of this post. I got lots and lots and lots of them.

Here are a few more verses to consider. I include the verse so you can look them up and read them in their entire context. This way if it is out of context you can have an opportunity to correct me.


John 12:40
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.


That doesn't seem fair does it?


God kills everyone (men, women, children, infants, newborns) in Sodom and Gomorrah by raining "fire and brimstone from the Lord out of heaven." Well, almost everyone -- he spares the "just and righteous" Lot and his family.

The penalty for disobeying the Lord is really really extreme.

Sarah looked back at the horrendous destruction of two cities after being told not to so god turns her into a pillar of salt!

Genesis 19:26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.

I find that a little extreme don't you?


Genesis 38:8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother
38:9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
38:10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

Wow a little hard on the guy for spilling his seed on the ground instead of impregnating his brothers wife.


For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.

Really? the First born? even the innocent ones? Of course he is the sadistic god of man. One not need to be guilty to suffer his wrath.

sometimes he likes man to do his killing for him as demonstrated in this next verse.

Exodus 32:27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

but all that killing got him exited. He had to join in the fun.

Genesis 32:35 And the LORD plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.

As a compassionate person I feel it is my duty to ask you not to work on the sabath. He won't like that at all!

Leviticus 23:27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
23:28 And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
23:29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.
23:30 And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.
23:31 Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
23:32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.


I have so many examples I would have to post the entire bible to quote them all. But if you need more examples I can post more after you digest these.
 
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JAVO

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You didn't answer his question. Why create humans if any of them would end up in hell?
You're right, I didn't. I stated that I deny one of the premises of the argument, and therefore do not accept the conclusion.


Also, riddle me this...
There are three mutually exclusive forms of existence:

1) One material existence and then we are extinguished.
2) One material existence and then an eternal spiritual existence (everyone in heaven, eternal heaven/hell, eternal heaven/temporary hell, etc)
3) Reincarnation

Only one of these can be true, which one do you think is real and how do you know that?

Ok, Joker, I'll play your little game. :) I choose #2 because I think the spiritual reality depicted by the Bible (not to be confused with that many claim to be depicted by the Bible) is most likely to correspond with actual reality.

Which do you think is real and how do you know that?
 

targobelle

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wow this thread has taken on a life of it's own and I have lost all desire to even begin to understand it all *sigh*
 

sassafrassquatch

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Ok, Joker, I'll play your little game. :) I choose #2 because I think the spiritual reality depicted by the Bible (not to be confused with that many claim to be depicted by the Bible) is most likely to correspond with actual reality.

Which do you think is real and how do you know that?

Joker? Dude. Riddler. You lose internet points for that.

You didn't explain how you know #2 is correct, only that you choose to believe it is true. I go with door #1 since I have no evidence that there is anything more than material existence. As far as all this stuff goes can you really fault me for wanting a little tangible evidence?
 

Roger Mexico

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Did you just employ argumentum ad populum?

It would appear so. Tsk tsk.

It may not prove anything about the existence of God, but it actually does show that there is something to Christianity. It basically started as a small radical Jewish sect and now has grown into the largest religion in the world. That wouldn't happen if there was not something to it.

Three words:

L. Ron. Hubbard.
 
G

GirlAmerica

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L. Ron Hubbard is a leader for a legalistic cult.

I dont understand how that was an answer to that statement, please explain.
 
G

GirlAmerica

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What do YOU consider proof? This is a question based on the fact that each person is looking thru their own perception. What may seem proof enough for me, may not be for another.

*faith is a huge piece in Christianity....acknowledging certain proof may be lacking
 

Roger Mexico

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L. Ron Hubbard is a leader for a legalistic cult.

I dont understand how that was an answer to that statement, please explain.

Do you think there "must be something" to Scientology given the fact that it has millions of adherents? And it's only gotten that large in a few decades.

Christianity isn't a "legalistic cult"? Please clarify the difference, ideally with something besides "the Christian message is universal salvation, it's more than an organization," because I've known Scientologists who say the exact same thing.
 

cafe

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wow this thread has taken on a life of it's own and I have lost all desire to even begin to understand it all *sigh*
Heehee. Now every time I see the thread title I think, I don't know about God, but I do know you're not sadistic, Tara. :alttongue:
 
G

GirlAmerica

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Do you think there "must be something" to Scientology given the fact that it has millions of adherents? And it's only gotten that large in a few decades.

Christianity isn't a "legalistic cult"? Please clarify the difference, ideally with something besides "the Christian message is universal salvation, it's more than an organization," because I've known Scientologists who say the exact same thing.


The bottom line is this:

Being a Christian requires only ONE THING....and nothing else.
No deeds nor rituals etc....

That one thing is to accept a gift.
Accepting the blood of the lamb to cover your sins and to gain entry into the Kingdom of Heaven. Accepting Jesus Christ as your savior. Period.
 
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