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  1. #31
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    What lesson is god trying to teach us with AIDS, cancer, starvation, rape, murder, abuse, genocide, etc? What is the point of it all? What are we supposed to learn? Why do we have to learn through suffering?
    The fact that we sometimes learn from it or become more resilient because of it does not imply that God is intentionally causing or allowing these things so that we will learn from it.

    What have you learned through seeing or experiencing suffering?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I disagree. I think that is one of the benefits. We have the freedom to think for ourselves. We don't have to simply follow as we are told. Uniformity seems like a disadvantage. Who wants to be a part of something where everyone thinks the same way? Freedom is preferable to uniformity, IMHO.
    That's not what I meant.

    What I mean is that if christianity is true then God created humanity for a purpose. He then reveals this purpose through the bible and God's communication should be so blatantly obvious and indisputable that there should be only a single monolithic church. But that's not the case. What we see is endlessly dividing denominations each with their own twist on things. God should be able to communicate well enough that there should be no room for disagreement about what he wants.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    The fact that we sometimes learn from it or become more resilient because of it does not imply that God is intentionally causing or allowing these things so that we will learn from it.

    What have you learned through seeing or experiencing suffering?
    The suffering of all life on this planet tells me I live in an unthinking, uncaring universe. Suffering is the result of natural disasters, organisms that feed upon us and the actions of other people. If we want to survive we have to learn to stay out of natures way, destroy the disease causing organisms that plague us and learn how to get along with each other because for now we all have to live on the same planet.

    Like I said before:

    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    Hiding under a blanket of wishful thinking with your invisible friend is no way to go through life. Better to accept that the universe doesn't give a shit about you, prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

  4. #34
    ~*taaa raaa raaa boom*~ targobelle's Avatar
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    Interestingly enough I was told that this current thought of mine is nothing more than a test. A brand new trial, and I only fail at life if I give up..... Um what part of I am not feeling strong enough to continue and giving up is just more appealing at the moment, is not understood. I think or was taught to believe that God is all that and he can do it all...... so well if he is then he can erase all my bad thoughts, erase all the bad thoughts of my husbands and make my life perfect. The reality is or the message that I get is that is too easy and you wouldn't learn anything from it. Well why the hell am I not good enough just the way I am????

    This conversation was not with anyone anywhere near mbti or even intp for that matter..... but still a struggle I am directing to someone who knows (apparently) better and more than myself.
    ~t ...in need of hugs please...
    Jung Test Results
    Extroverted (E) 63.16% Intuitive (N) 60.53% Feeling (F) 84.38% Perceiving (P) 87.1% ~Your type is: ENFP

  5. #35
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    ...God's communication should be so blatantly obvious and indisputable that there should be only a single monolithic church. But that's not the case. What we see is endlessly dividing denominations each with their own twist on things. God should be able to communicate well enough that there should be no room for disagreement about what he wants.
    Person A says you're tall.
    Person B says you're short.
    Person C says you're average height.
    Person D has no idea how tall you are, but they're pretty sure you're not representing your true height accurately.

    What is the best way to determine how tall you are?

  6. #36
    Senior Member Roger Mexico's Avatar
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    Re: OP

    It's been a while since I read any Nietzsche, so forgive me not being able to cite this specifically, but he says you can basically reconcile the reality in which human beings live with the idea of God in one of three ways:

    1. God is a sadist or otherwise ill-disposed toward humanity.

    2. God is incompetent, or at least less than omnipotent, and humanity's fate is to suffer for God's failure to perfect us.

    3. God is omnipotent, and perhaps well-intentioned, but thinks in a way that humans would call insanity.

    Personally, I find the idea of no God vastly more comforting than any of the above suppositions.

    Seems like you need to self-actualize. Break out of the confines of the arbitrary categories and false dichotomies that have been imposed on you and realize your Will to Power.

    I'm still working on that myself, but it helped tremendously to realign my thinking toward positive ends when I was going through the stage of realizing that any God that would create this world can't possibly all that He's cracked up to be by the major religions.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    Person A says you're tall.
    Person B says you're short.
    Person C says you're average height.
    Person D has no idea how tall you are, but they're pretty sure you're not representing your true height accurately.

    What is the best way to determine how tall you are?
    I'm saying that a competent God should come right out and say "I'm 6' 3" and bench 250" leaving nothing in dispute.

    edit: w00t! 100th post!

  8. #38
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    The suffering of all life on this planet tells me I live in an unthinking, uncaring universe. Suffering is the result of natural disasters, organisms that feed upon us and the actions of other people. If we want to survive we have to learn to stay out of natures way, destroy the disease causing organisms that plague us and learn how to get along with each other because for now we all have to live on the same planet.

    Like I said before:
    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    Hiding under a blanket of wishful thinking with your invisible friend is no way to go through life. Better to accept that the universe doesn't give a shit about you, prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
    Well said, and I agree with you.

    I don't understand why you think this perspective excludes God. But, I think maybe it's because you are including God as part of the "unthinking, uncaring universe"? I consider the universe to be a physical reality, and God to be a spiritual reality. The reality of one dimension doesn't necessarily negate the other.

  9. #39
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    I'm saying that a competent God should come right out and say "I'm 6' 3" and bench 250" leaving nothing in dispute.
    I think he did exactly that, but not during our lifetime. So now we're forced to read obscure and debatable accounts about him written by other error-prone and biased humans who recorded some of their own interpretations of the facts. Even so, most agree on what the important facts are.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    Well said, and I agree with you.

    I don't understand why you think this perspective excludes God. But, I think maybe it's because you are including God as part of the "unthinking, uncaring universe"? I consider the universe to be a physical reality, and God to be a spiritual reality. The reality of one dimension doesn't necessarily negate the other.
    I'm a skeptic and an atheist, I think the universe is unthinking and uncaring because that is what I see. I don't believe in God because there is no evidence that he exists. Where is the evidence for your god? Don't tell me I just have to believe or have faith, I can believe and have faith that a magic crystal will protect me from harm but that doesn't make it true unless there is testable evidence that it does.

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