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  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    I would suggest that God does not know everything due to limits imposed on himself by allowing human free will. He is only aware of the infinite combinations of variables. He does not know if you will choose to eat Wheaties or Cheerios for breakfast, only that your previous breakfast history and current nutritional requirements indicate that you will mose likely choose Wheaties. The choice is yours.

    19 more to go?
    God knows everything ...God doesn't know everything. It doesn’t matter and changes nothing. Even if we ignore Proverbs 16:4 "The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." and 2Thessalonians 2:11-12
    "God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned."

    If the Biblical god does not know if a person is going to heaven or hell he is still sadistic and here’s why.


    This biblical God created man because he was lonely. He wanted company. After a long history of betrayal and lies by man, god sets up some rules for man. He says violaters of the rules will be condemned to death/everlasting fire blah blah blah...

    Scary. If God were standing next to me in the flesh/physical world/visual image then I would surely abide by all the rules. There would be no doubt of his existence or punishment.


    But that's too easy for his creation. He needs a challenge.

    So God decides, instead of being there as a constant reminder that he will vanish. But how will man know the rules?

    God will send other men, you know the liars, cheaters, betrayers, etc etc.. to deliver his message. Of course there will be other men with other claims and other rules but man should figure it out right? You better hope so because if you believe in the wrong God or the wrong set of rules you will surely be condemned to death/everlasting fire blah blah blah... you know the guys described in Genesis 6:7 "And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."

    Well just to make things more difficult, he decides there will be no identifying markings on these men, nor will there be any intuitive lie detection ability accurate at 100% given to any man. In fact there wont be any way to tell the difference between the good liars and the men with the real word.

    hmm.. this is starting to get more complicated. But wait there’s more.

    Instead of having these men deliver their message at once. It somehow seems better to have these men deliver the messages in small pieces, scattered over thousands of years. One man one year tells a story then 100 or 200 years later another man will tell a story.

    There will be many more men and many more stories that are untrue but man should be able to figure it out. Maybe too easy... So to further complicate things lets have a bunch of men vote on which stories to include in the official rule book. Then, lets have them include a bunch of stories that contradict each other.


    That should really mess them up.


    Woooooo hooooo this whole create man thing is turning out to be great!


    Now that's sadistic.

    I would admire him or her if god were real. I like him/her!

    Do you really want me to list 19 more? I could and I won't even include the 3 included at the beginning of this post. I got lots and lots and lots of them.

    Here are a few more verses to consider. I include the verse so you can look them up and read them in their entire context. This way if it is out of context you can have an opportunity to correct me.


    John 12:40
    He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.


    That doesn't seem fair does it?


    God kills everyone (men, women, children, infants, newborns) in Sodom and Gomorrah by raining "fire and brimstone from the Lord out of heaven." Well, almost everyone -- he spares the "just and righteous" Lot and his family.

    The penalty for disobeying the Lord is really really extreme.

    Sarah looked back at the horrendous destruction of two cities after being told not to so god turns her into a pillar of salt!

    Genesis 19:26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.

    I find that a little extreme don't you?


    Genesis 38:8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother
    38:9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
    38:10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

    Wow a little hard on the guy for spilling his seed on the ground instead of impregnating his brothers wife.


    For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.

    Really? the First born? even the innocent ones? Of course he is the sadistic god of man. One not need to be guilty to suffer his wrath.

    sometimes he likes man to do his killing for him as demonstrated in this next verse.

    Exodus 32:27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

    but all that killing got him exited. He had to join in the fun.

    Genesis 32:35 And the LORD plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.

    As a compassionate person I feel it is my duty to ask you not to work on the sabath. He won't like that at all!

    Leviticus 23:27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
    23:28 And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
    23:29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.
    23:30 And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.
    23:31 Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
    23:32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.


    I have so many examples I would have to post the entire bible to quote them all. But if you need more examples I can post more after you digest these.
    Last edited by samIam; 11-29-2007 at 02:35 PM. Reason: gramatical error

  2. #132
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    You didn't answer his question. Why create humans if any of them would end up in hell?
    You're right, I didn't. I stated that I deny one of the premises of the argument, and therefore do not accept the conclusion.


    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    Also, riddle me this...
    There are three mutually exclusive forms of existence:

    1) One material existence and then we are extinguished.
    2) One material existence and then an eternal spiritual existence (everyone in heaven, eternal heaven/hell, eternal heaven/temporary hell, etc)
    3) Reincarnation

    Only one of these can be true, which one do you think is real and how do you know that?
    Ok, Joker, I'll play your little game. I choose #2 because I think the spiritual reality depicted by the Bible (not to be confused with that many claim to be depicted by the Bible) is most likely to correspond with actual reality.

    Which do you think is real and how do you know that?

  3. #133
    ~*taaa raaa raaa boom*~ targobelle's Avatar
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    wow this thread has taken on a life of it's own and I have lost all desire to even begin to understand it all *sigh*
    ~t ...in need of hugs please...
    Jung Test Results
    Extroverted (E) 63.16% Intuitive (N) 60.53% Feeling (F) 84.38% Perceiving (P) 87.1% ~Your type is: ENFP

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    Ok, Joker, I'll play your little game. I choose #2 because I think the spiritual reality depicted by the Bible (not to be confused with that many claim to be depicted by the Bible) is most likely to correspond with actual reality.

    Which do you think is real and how do you know that?
    Joker? Dude. Riddler. You lose internet points for that.

    You didn't explain how you know #2 is correct, only that you choose to believe it is true. I go with door #1 since I have no evidence that there is anything more than material existence. As far as all this stuff goes can you really fault me for wanting a little tangible evidence?

  5. #135
    Senior Member Roger Mexico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    Did you just employ argumentum ad populum?
    It would appear so. Tsk tsk.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    It may not prove anything about the existence of God, but it actually does show that there is something to Christianity. It basically started as a small radical Jewish sect and now has grown into the largest religion in the world. That wouldn't happen if there was not something to it.
    Three words:

    L. Ron. Hubbard.

  6. #136
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    L. Ron Hubbard is a leader for a legalistic cult.

    I dont understand how that was an answer to that statement, please explain.

  7. #137
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    What do YOU consider proof? This is a question based on the fact that each person is looking thru their own perception. What may seem proof enough for me, may not be for another.

    *faith is a huge piece in Christianity....acknowledging certain proof may be lacking

  8. #138
    Senior Member Roger Mexico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlAmerica View Post
    L. Ron Hubbard is a leader for a legalistic cult.

    I dont understand how that was an answer to that statement, please explain.
    Do you think there "must be something" to Scientology given the fact that it has millions of adherents? And it's only gotten that large in a few decades.

    Christianity isn't a "legalistic cult"? Please clarify the difference, ideally with something besides "the Christian message is universal salvation, it's more than an organization," because I've known Scientologists who say the exact same thing.

  9. #139
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by targo View Post
    wow this thread has taken on a life of it's own and I have lost all desire to even begin to understand it all *sigh*
    Heehee. Now every time I see the thread title I think, I don't know about God, but I do know you're not sadistic, Tara.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Mexico View Post
    Do you think there "must be something" to Scientology given the fact that it has millions of adherents? And it's only gotten that large in a few decades.

    Christianity isn't a "legalistic cult"? Please clarify the difference, ideally with something besides "the Christian message is universal salvation, it's more than an organization," because I've known Scientologists who say the exact same thing.

    The bottom line is this:

    Being a Christian requires only ONE THING....and nothing else.
    No deeds nor rituals etc....

    That one thing is to accept a gift.
    Accepting the blood of the lamb to cover your sins and to gain entry into the Kingdom of Heaven. Accepting Jesus Christ as your savior. Period.

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