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  1. #111
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    Default Sadistic as can be!

    If there is a god and that god is the one that is in the bible, then yes he would be truly sadistic. I could give you at least 20 reasons to support the fact that this god from the bible is sadistic but I only need to give one to prove my point.

    If there is a god, and he truly knows everything, then he creates at least some people whose entire existence will be one of torture and never ending pain and torment. Those who will be damned to hell will be cast into an everlasting fire where they will be burned and tortured for all eternity.

    So why would God create this person? If this God truly knew everything then he would know what would become of that poor soul before he ever gave it life. The only explanation for doing so would be that he is sadistic.

  2. #112
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Never believe in organization or never believe in organism?
    Organism is spontaneous. Organization is the Church.

    Most people when they say they believe in God believe in the Church.

    God (= who is) created organism (= the universe). Who created the Church I do not know.

  3. #113
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    I would suggest that God does not know everything due to limits imposed on himself by allowing human free will. He is only aware of the infinite combinations of variables. He does not know if you will choose to eat Wheaties or Cheerios for breakfast, only that your previous breakfast history and current nutritional requirements indicate that you will mose likely choose Wheaties. The choice is yours.

    19 more to go?

    Quote Originally Posted by samIam View Post
    If there is a god and that god is the one that is in the bible, then yes he would be truly sadistic. I could give you at least 20 reasons to support the fact that this god from the bible is sadistic but I only need to give one to prove my point.

    If there is a god, and he truly knows everything, then he creates at least some people whose entire existence will be one of torture and never ending pain and torment. Those who will be damned to hell will be cast into an everlasting fire where they will be burned and tortured for all eternity.

    So why would God create this person? If this God truly knew everything then he would know what would become of that poor soul before he ever gave it life. The only explanation for doing so would be that he is sadistic.

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    I would suggest that God does not know everything due to limits imposed on himself by allowing human free will. He is only aware of the infinite combinations of variables. He does not know if you will choose to eat Wheaties or Cheerios for breakfast, only that your previous breakfast history and current nutritional requirements indicate that you will mose likely choose Wheaties. The choice is yours.

    19 more to go?
    You didn't answer his question. Why create humans if any of them would end up in hell?

    Also, riddle me this...

    There are three mutually exclusive forms of existence:

    1) One material existence and then we are extinguished.
    2) One material existence and then an eternal spiritual existence (everyone in heaven, eternal heaven/hell, eternal heaven/temporary hell, etc)
    3) Reincarnation

    Only one of these can be true, which one do you think is real and how do you know that?

  5. #115
    Senior Member Roger Mexico's Avatar
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    Mind if I jump in here?

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post

    So again, what good is the "category" at this point? Pretty much every human thought "has either conscious or nonconscious cognitions and perceptual biases associated with it," so I don't see a whole lot of value in highlighting that as a distinguishing or useful feature of the "category."
    Aha! Post-structuralism FTW! Well said.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    Ignoring the previous line of meta-airy-fairy discussion, how do you know your disbelief in God isn't a result of cognitive or perceptual bias in yourself? That seems like a very practical question.
    I would say the important point is, as Fineline points out in the above excerpt, all human thought occurs in the context of cognitive and perceptual biases. Therefore, simply to point out that there are such biases associated with one person's conclusions on a given subject does not detract from their validity per se. Neither does it imply, however, that all such conclusions would be equally valid simply because they are formed in the context of such biases (a common misinterpretation of post-structuralist/ post-modern arguments about rationality and objectivity, I've found). What this realization suggests is actually that greater effort must be made to examine not only the merits of a particular position, but also the biases that may have informed it and, perhaps crucially, the manner in which those biases can be seen to have informed a purportedly objective truth-statement.

    One of the best means of doing so, I've found, is the principle embodied most fully by the presumption-of-innocence doctrine used in the American legal system. Namely, that the burden of proof should rest with the maker of an affirmative assertion about reality rather than with those who would rebut that assertion. In other words, in order to be considered valid and reasonable, a belief should rest on rational grounds that provide a satisfactory answer to all reasonable objections. A disbelief, however, need only derive from the inability of the belief being rejected to satisfactorily answer one such objection, whatever its other apparent merits may be.

    Atheism is only a meaningful term in the context of theism. That is to say, there would be no "atheists" if no one believed affirmatively in the existence of God. Atheism is simply the position of rebutting any given assertion about a supernatural, superhuman authority. This is most clearly demonstrated by the observation that every devout Christian, Jew, and Muslim is an atheist with respect to Zeus or Wotan. An "atheist" in the common-usage sense of a person who rejects all religious claims simply has the same view of Jesus, Yahweh, and Allah that the worshippers of these gods have of Zeus and Wotan--they are perhaps interestingly evocative fictions, but fictions nonetheless. Thus, "atheism" does not--and need not--make any claim to understand or describe the whole of cosmic reality. In fact, it need not even assert anything about reality beyond that which can be readily observed; it simply rejects the grounds on which any given religion claims to do so. In this respect, the atheist's point of view differs considerably from that of the theist.

    Therefore, to assert that atheism is a belief system of a kind like unto Christianity or Islam (or Wotanism) is to misunderstand the nature and derivation of the atheist's position.

  6. #116
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I'm still convinced that if there is a god s/he hates me!

    (now whatever prepares a sacrifice to throw into a volcano in hopes that this will appease the evil earth god and maybe make slightly less evil shit happen in the world!)

    I really can't see how a good and loving god would allow for bad things to happen to good people- and listening to the Easter Sunday sermon on "Judas was supposed to tell on Jesus, Judas is going to hell" kind of convinced me that if there is a god at all, s/he is very very unfair!

    nonetheless, I'm happy for all of you guys who do beleive in something!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I'm happy for all of you guys who do beleive in something!
    Why?

  8. #118
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    because it makes them happy- and gives an excuse for me to get presents every December 25th!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #119
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samIam View Post
    If there is a god and that god is the one that is in the bible, then yes he would be truly sadistic. I could give you at least 20 reasons to support the fact that this god from the bible is sadistic but I only need to give one to prove my point.

    If there is a god, and he truly knows everything, then he creates at least some people whose entire existence will be one of torture and never ending pain and torment. Those who will be damned to hell will be cast into an everlasting fire where they will be burned and tortured for all eternity.

    So why would God create this person? If this God truly knew everything then he would know what would become of that poor soul before he ever gave it life. The only explanation for doing so would be that he is sadistic.
    FYI, even accepting an absolutely biblical perspective, the idea of eternal torture is debatable. There are some (including myself) that view hell as more or less equivalent to death and not some kind of eternal torture.
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  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    FYI, even accepting an absolutely biblical perspective, the idea of eternal torture is debatable. There are some (including myself) that view hell as more or less equivalent to death and not some kind of eternal torture.
    Even people wishing for it ("I hope he rots in hell", etc.) is kind of disturbing. (A demon summoner skill i thought up for a D2 character was based off this idea, of what someone's soul would be like after spending time getting tortured for such long times.)

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