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  1. #21
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    Descartes was definitely onto something though, and he probably got a lot more done than Camus. However, I don't think Descartes fucked quite as many women...
    He was busy fucking with his mind.

  2. #22
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    How about Aristotle instead?

    "And life: since, even if no other good were the result of life, it is desirable in itself."
    That's what our DNA believes at least.

  3. #23
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    He was busy fucking with his mind.
    Yeah everyone knows that true geniuses don't waste their time with random fornication.

  4. #24
    I drink your milkshake. Thessaly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide. Life is either worth living or it is not. - Albert Camus

    So guys, is that it?
    The questioning is problematic. Is a hug worth hugging? I think the problem with this quote is that Albert is identifying life and living in two different manners i.e. equivocating.

    Is our existence worth our participation? Perhaps this rests in a cost/benefit analysis. What adversity are you experiencing in relation to your level of contentment? Is it a struggle for you just to experience the most basic of delights of humanity? Are you a privileged sloth who creates little value for yourself and others? Do you derive much satisfaction from developing your potential and unearthing others? Are you tormented by the human condition and the hardships of every day life?

    In short, it depends.

  5. #25
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide. Life is either worth living or it is not. - Albert Camus
    I have to admit it was a big one for me. (I wrestle with what the Divine is and how to find it if it exists, but that is all sort of tied into it.)

    I spent many many years living without meaning in my life. Or, rather, I tried to impose meaning from a variety of external sources -- ideologies, ideas/theories, goals, relationships -- and the stuff that everyone else thought that made life worth living did not work for me. It was frustrating to see so many other people seemingly happy -- people I was in relationships with -- and not being able to experience life the way they did. It put a wall between us and frustrated them in regards to me.

    At core, I questioned daily whether it was worth being alive... especially if there was no proof of higher purpose and no way to be sure of it.

    I did not much understand the existentialists when I was younger, I felt that if there was no higher definable standard then nothing made sense and nothing mattered. I had to grapple very hard with that question in my 30's because I finally accepted I had no proof of anything and especially the few things I was using to justify my existence. It was devastating and almost killed me.

    Then I sort of "passed through the eye" and came out on the other side and felt empowered because I realized I was free and did not need an external proof of anything. This was also coupled with making changes in my life and being true to who I realized I was, so finally I was living my script instead of all the other scripts people had chosen for me in their attempt to give me meaning.

    I feel like I have lived more in the last few years than I did during almost all of my life beforehand, and since then I have never really questioned a reason to live. I just want to live because I am alive.

    It's sort of a philosophical problem but not quite a rational one, because you can never really use logic to justify a choice like this; it's more like you get to a cliff, use philosophy to frame and accept the ambiguity of life, and then make a choice and plunge through the veil.

    it is pretty amazing to me, though, the huge shift in experience that occurred when I did so... and that once I experienced life as worth living, my life radically changed and my quality of life improved tremendously.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #26
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    I have a very simple take on this that I've maintained even during the crappiest moments of my life when many people may've killed themselves in my place.

    This is that, yeu can only live once, but we ALL die eventually.

    No matter whot I do, someday, I am going to die. I know this for absolute fact. I have no need to bother speeding up the process because it is an inevitability.

    Once I am dead, there's alot of things I want to do that I won't be able to, because I'll be DEAD. As I can only do these things while alive, it would only make sense to try to stay alive for the foreseeable future so that I can in fact do these things I'm interested in doing. Death will come on its' own soon enough, whether I want it to or not, so there's not much purpose in speeding that up as I'll only be depriving myself of things I could've done while alive.



    Therefore, without using religion, nor any actual requirement on life being "worth" living, I've already shown logical explanation that suicide is a pretty stupid way to go.

    Yes, life really really reaaaaaaaaally sucks at times. Yes there'll be times where yeu'd much rather just DIE than endure whotever it is that's tearing yeu apart at that moment. But yeu may as well endure, because, suck though life may be, the alternative is kind of a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

  7. #27
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    Just a few homespun observations:

    A university professor who teaches evening classes will generally notice, in absence of a statistical analysis...night students perform better than day students in meeting the course requirements.

    I would guess it's because the more one has to do, the more one is motivated to do in other aspects of life.

    The transition from hunting and gathering to agricultural societies meant that populations increasingly began to have "too much time on one's hands."

    Which ultimately leads to idle time to ponder the questions of "is life worth living" vs. ok...it's time to chase down the next meal.

  8. #28
    . Blank's Avatar
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    I kinda think that's bullshit about the agricultural society thing...because seriously, how hard IS it to get enough food to eat one day at a time?

    I think killing a rabbit is easier than plowing an entire fucking field.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  9. #29
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    I kinda think that's bullshit about the agricultural society thing...because seriously, how hard IS it to get enough food to eat one day at a time?

    I think killing a rabbit is easier than plowing an entire fucking field.
    Depends; in a harsh winter, or in less bountiful climates, such as the poles or deserts? It's pretty rough getting a meal some days.

    Especially if yeu have 20-30 people to feed, and all the other animals are fighting for food as well, and wolves, bears, and other predators, are far better built and designed for hunting than humans are.

    When yeu're down to only about 50 rabbits in the area, and yeu have to feed 30 people every day, yeu run out of rabbits awfully fast.

    The reason for the agricultural society, is that it was sustainable, the food stores could be preserved easily to last through winter whereas meat went bad unless it was heavily salted, and then it tasted like crap. Or salted crap. Whotever.

    Thing is, as yeu get more people in an area... let's say a city of a million people... see if yeu can find enough rabbits within 1 day's walk to feed every last one of them. As yeu grow in population size, it gets harder and harder to maintain food supply via hunting alone. Agriculture just works out better long term with more people, and, although still prone to complications with weather, it's still more stable than trying to hunt.

    It's also hard as hell to chase anything down when yeu're starving from lack of food for 4-5 days due to crappy hunting, no energy means no energy to hunt, which means no food, which means no energy to hunt with... nice little cycle there.

    As such, yes, if yeu were worried about ONE person for ONE day, hunting down a single rabbit may not be too hard. If yeu're trying to support a small society for an extended time, it doesn't work so well.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    I kinda think that's bullshit about the agricultural society thing...because seriously, how hard IS it to get enough food to eat one day at a time?

    I think killing a rabbit is easier than plowing an entire fucking field.
    Spoken like a person who's had absolutely no exposure to hunting or farming.

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