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  1. #61
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    That's a fairly compelling justification for religion: "without it, people will justify tribal warfare by other means!"

    Come on, we already have the nation-state and political ideology for that.
    That's what I (we) said. Religion is only a sociological phenomena amongst many, and so are sports, ideologies and politics.

    Many elements within them are freely interchangeable or are at least very similar.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  2. #62
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Interesting idea.

    Do sports really promote a kind of ethos?
    well, consider teh fact that most of London, or Birminhams, best Football players don't come from either London orBirmingham, you have to accept there is some kind of twisted triabl thinking to sports. You wouldn't think a Londoner would cheer for a team made up of people from all over europe, but for some reason, they do. I mean these are people you dont know and they proably wouldn't lend you 10 euros, and you care about the outcome of a football match they are playing in???

    bizzare
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  3. #63
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    well, consider teh fact that most of London, or Birminhams, best Football players don't come from either London orBirmingham, you have to accept there is some kind of twisted triabl thinking to sports. You wouldn't think a Londoner would cheer for a team made up of people from all over europe, but for some reason, they do. I mean these are people you dont know and they proably wouldn't lend you 10 euros, and you care about the outcome of a football match they are playing in???

    bizzare
    It really is!
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  4. #64
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    That's a fairly compelling justification for religion: "without it, people will justify tribal warfare by other means!"
    Well, actually, tribal warfare by sports teams might be more interesting than religious persecution...
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #65
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Well, actually, tribal warfare by sports teams might be more interesting than religious persecution...
    That's blasphemy, my dear little Hap'!
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  6. #66
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Well, actually, tribal warfare by sports teams might be more interesting than religious persecution...
    For example, see Italy.

  7. #67
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    In the same time, Ibn Rushd (Averroes) noticed that faith and reason can lead to conflicting solutions -most of the time, he said-, and hence, do not belong to the same "world", to the same "sphere".
    Of course that's going to happen, where faith and reason are sometimes in tension. But tension does not necessarily mean faith and reason have nothing to do with each other. Quite the contrary, it shows that faith and reason must keep each other in proper balance. I believe Maimonides made a similar point as well about this.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Of course that's going to happen, where faith and reason are sometimes in tension. But tension does not necessarily mean faith and reason have nothing to do with each other. Quite the contrary, it shows that faith and reason must keep each other in proper balance. I believe Maimonides made a similar point as well about this.
    doubt is created by lack of factual evidence or contradiction within dogma. so in order to get rid of this doubt, one must either change their mind or aquire the esoteric quality of "faith".
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  9. #69
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    doubt is created by lack of factual evidence or contradiction within dogma. so in order to get rid of this doubt, one must either change their mind or aquire the esoteric quality of "faith".
    There's nothing esoteric about faith. Faith basically means trust, which is fundamental to human life however way you perceive it(regardless of belief or disbelief in God). Concerning contradictions, you have to realise that religious belief is based heavily on paradox.

  10. #70
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    I'm INTP and I don't hate religion; I find it boring (in the personal rather than sociological context), unconvincing, and I like to make fun of it, but I think it has great utilitarian value.

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