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  1. #281
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    How come this shit hasn't been split into another thread yet? The topic is supposd to be about INTPs and their perspective on religion, not a debate about stances/takes on Christianity. No one's even mentioned INTPs for like 100 posts.
    The original question is two-fold. We're covering the latter part.


    Quote Originally Posted by milkyway2 View Post
    Is it because I am an INTP that I hate religion?

    [..]

    So, if you go to church and/or like anything about it or organized religion. Why? I want to understand!

  2. #282
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    That is just one interpretation of the bible.

    You can't use that as justification. It's like me asking someone to prove their God, and them pointing towards the bible. It is not proof.

    You are doing the exact same thing here. Me asking for proof, and you just pointing towards an interpretation. How can you be so certain that your understanding is the true one? You haven't answered that. Not to mention it doesn't even seem like you know that much about christianity in a holistic manner. For example: When you attempted to take a dig at christianity with it's slavery, only to be rebutted by Pegus on the issue.

    If you don't understand christianity fully, can you really complain about it? I would not think so. It's like arguing about the physics of universe without understanding the all the different views on how it could work.
    1- the attitude of the bible twoards slavery is quite clear. slaves should obe ythier masters and masters should treat their slaves well. It says absolutely noting about slavery being wrong or needing to be abolished. If you go into the OT, it actually gets a lot worse, calling for the enslavement of the enemies of the jews.

    2- hell is not just "one interpretation" of the bible. its right there, in the book. i didn't put it there. "other interpretations" means well that parts really unpleasent so we are just going to try and pretend it doesnt exist. but the concept still exists.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/robert165/

    I'm just trying to do this Jigsaw puzzle, before it rains anymore.

  3. #283
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    and i'm not iterested in an expanded view of christiaity/religion. becasue at the core of it sits and idea so reprehensible. even if i wanted to take your advice, and i dont, but even if i wanted to my sense of fairness and morality would not allow me to.
    Thank you for conceding my final point - the one about you not knowing what you're criticizing because you haven't taken the time to appropriately research it.

    Best of luck. It must be difficult to exist in a culture that you profess so little knowledge of. I encourage you to change your stance. The world becomes less threatening when we take the time to understand our role in it.

    This, of course, isn't possible until we can appropriately perceive the world.

  4. #284
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Thank you for conceding my final point - the one about you not knowing what you're criticizing because you haven't taken the time to appropriately research it.

    Best of luck. It must be difficult to exist in a culture that you profess so little knowledge of. I encourage you to change your stance. The world becomes less threatening when we take the time to understand our role in it.

    This, of course, isn't possible until we can appropriately perceive the world.
    why don't you quiz me on some christian topics if you're so sure i know nothing about the religion.........
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/robert165/

    I'm just trying to do this Jigsaw puzzle, before it rains anymore.

  5. #285
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    no, its not, its like rejecting god and then having god send you to hell to suffer forever. do you really think anybody would CHOOSE to do that. like, here's the fire, stick you hand in it??????

    no, you people call for me to BELIEVE in christ. its not enoough to acknowldge that god is XYZ and i need jesus for XYZ + ABC in order to reach salvation. i could say anything to save my skin, but i can't believe an immoral, cruel system of punishment is FAIR.
    I dont need anything from you. Sorry about that but what you believe, how you live and how you deal with the consequences is your own affair, we arent even close man how can even guess what my needs are?

    OK, not sure how to frame this, you're arguing with a bogey of your own making here or perhaps someone you've had contact with other than me, fine, but like I've said before God isnt sending you anywhere, God has an unconditional love for you, right, love cant compell, if you dont want it that's fine, no ones keeping you in his prescence but dont expect to be happy, content and free from any disturbance if you want to live without God or love.

    The whole of Christianity is about dispelling myths and illusions and the false logic of earlier creedos, its the pagan faiths, the poly theisms, animism, totemism etc. which encourage people to live in terror of unintentionally slighting some or other vengeful, jealous diety. Also, seeing as Jesus was God incarnate, its hard to see how you'd embrace God while rejecting him but I'm sure you'll manage if you've made your mind up.

  6. #286
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    1- the attitude of the bible twoards slavery is quite clear. slaves should obe ythier masters and masters should treat their slaves well. It says absolutely noting about slavery being wrong or needing to be abolished. If you go into the OT, it actually gets a lot worse, calling for the enslavement of the enemies of the jews.

    2- hell is not just "one interpretation" of the bible. its right there, in the book. i didn't put it there. "other interpretations" means well that parts really npleasent so we are just going to try and pretend it doesnt exist. but the concept still exists.
    1. Just because the bible does not say slavery is not wrong. Does that mean that it should/must be practiced? Society has decided that we do not want harmful slavery and thus has abolished harmful slavery, and with it the possability of normal slavery as suggested in the bible.

    What is a butler? What is a worker? Are humans really that much more free? What is a slave?

    2. Yet again. You've ignored the part where I stated the bible could have been mistranslated. That people could have editted the bible since it was written. That the channelers themselves misinterpreted the message given by God. There's just so much variables that I'm not so sure how you can assert the common interpretation of the bible as truth.

    FACT is.

    There are people who believe that the idea of hell within the bible is a) mistranslation b) added in by people to control the mass. Now if what they say is true. How can you be so certain that your idea that HELL is definitely in the bible is the true interpretation/understanding/original document.

    Truth is. You can't. I'm done here... since I know this will just end up going in circles. You've already mentioned to other posters here that you aren't willing to explore christianity properly before making judgement on whether it makes sense or not, or whether your current understanding of christianity is even the truth.

  7. #287
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    why don't you quiz me on some christian topics if you're so sure i know nothing about the religion.........
    I don't know what you know. Only you know what you know.

    And, you just got done telling me you know nothing. . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    and i'm not iterested in an expanded view of christiaity/religion. because at the core of it sits and idea so reprehensible. even if i wanted to take your advice, and i dont, but even if i wanted to my sense of fairness and morality would not allow me to.
    Case closed.

  8. #288
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    1- the attitude of the bible twoards slavery is quite clear. slaves should obe ythier masters and masters should treat their slaves well. It says absolutely noting about slavery being wrong or needing to be abolished. If you go into the OT, it actually gets a lot worse, calling for the enslavement of the enemies of the jews.

    2- hell is not just "one interpretation" of the bible. its right there, in the book. i didn't put it there. "other interpretations" means well that parts really unpleasent so we are just going to try and pretend it doesnt exist. but the concept still exists.
    What does Jesus say about slavery? I'm pretty sure he was clear on that point, the whole do unto others as you would have them do unto you I'm pretty sure isnt a big plus for enslavement, you ought to know that a proper understanding of Christian biblical scholarship involves a recognition that the old testament is only included in so far as it verifies that Jesus is the expected messiah and also as a contrast, demonstrating Jesus' differential interpretation of existing scriptures contra the opinions which had grown up over time.

    Of course the concept of hell exists, it exists outside of and apart from the bible too, Hades, The Underworld etc. Its not an invention of Christianity to spread the gospel. Whether its the sinners reward or not depends upon the culture and context.

  9. #289
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont need anything from you. Sorry about that but what you believe, how you live and how you deal with the consequences is your own affair, we arent even close man how can even guess what my needs are?

    OK, not sure how to frame this, you're arguing with a bogey of your own making here or perhaps someone you've had contact with other than me, fine, but like I've said before God isnt sending you anywhere, God has an unconditional love for you, right, love cant compell, if you dont want it that's fine, no ones keeping you in his prescence but dont expect to be happy, content and free from any disturbance if you want to live without God or love.

    The whole of Christianity is about dispelling myths and illusions and the false logic of earlier creedos, its the pagan faiths, the poly theisms, animism, totemism etc. which encourage people to live in terror of unintentionally slighting some or other vengeful, jealous diety. Also, seeing as Jesus was God incarnate, its hard to see how you'd embrace God while rejecting him but I'm sure you'll manage if you've made your mind up.
    more presumption! who in their right mind wouldn't want to be happy and live in love? its quite insulting for you to say that people who don't think like you have rejected the truth instead of admiting truth can't exist if it contradicts itself.

    and no, you calling god loving does not make it so. all i've done is take the word "love" and look at his actions and see that they don't match. he's god. he could snap his fingers and forgive everyone. thats not what he does.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/robert165/

    I'm just trying to do this Jigsaw puzzle, before it rains anymore.

  10. #290
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    There are people who believe that the idea of hell within the bible is a) mistranslation b) added in by people to control the mass. Now if what they say is true. How can you be so certain that your idea that HELL is definitely in the bible is the true interpretation/understanding/original document.
    then i guess its a pretty stupid book to follow
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/robert165/

    I'm just trying to do this Jigsaw puzzle, before it rains anymore.

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