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  1. #201
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    no, actualy they are not. however, it may make it easier for you to tell yourself that.
    If you want to justify your position over mine, please present a better reason than a personal attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    some people may embrace lies. but rejecting the christian god on a moral basis has nothing to do with embracing a lie. in fact, the opposite. it means you have a concince.
    Your conscious never leads you astray? You've never thought it was OK to do something, only to find out later that what you did was wrong? You've never thought something was wrong, only to find out later that it was OK?

    Even if you've never experienced the above, (which would be incredible), does this mean that blindly following your conscious is a reliable way to form true beliefs about what you ought to do?

  2. #202
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    the evangeicals are the only ones who actually follow the bible.
    According to what logic can you base this on?

  3. #203
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    If you want to justify your position over mine, please present a better reason than a personal attack.
    your position is that hell is a self inflicted wound. you have just said that i deserve to go to hell because i reject your god. its you who made it personal, not me.



    Your conscious never leads you astray? You've never thought it was OK to do something, only to find out later that what you did was wrong? You've never thought something was wrong, only to find out later that it was OK?

    Even if you've never experienced the above, (which would be incredible), does this mean that blindly following your conscious is a reliable way to form true beliefs about what you ought to do?
    my concience would never permit me to believe a $10 fine was acceptable punishment for rape or murder. my logical mind would never let me believe the moon was made of cheese. and to answer your question, any time i let my concience "lead me away" i always had a nagging feeling telling me i was doing something wrong.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/robert165/

    I'm just trying to do this Jigsaw puzzle, before it rains anymore.

  4. #204
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    According to what logic can you base this on?
    because unlike you they don't ignore the parts that "arent pretty"
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/robert165/

    I'm just trying to do this Jigsaw puzzle, before it rains anymore.

  5. #205
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    no, you're not. i may really really really want to beleive the moon is made out of cheese, but becasue i have actually seen a picture of a moon rock, i am forced to believe it is in fact, made out of moonrock. i can't force myself to beleive the moon is made out of cheese when i know for a fact it isin't.
    You could always deny what you'd seen with your eyes in order to preserve your belief that the moon was made of green cheese. If you really, really, really wanted to believe the moon was made of green cheese, you'd deny the veracity of the image presented in the picture. What this example shows is that, in view of the image in the picture, you no longer want to believe the moon is made of green cheese.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    nor could i force myself to believe a $10 fine was an acceptable punishment for raping or killing someone. no matter how much i would want to believe that, i could never believe that.
    What if were a fact that a $10 fine were an acceptable punishment for raping or killing someone, would you believe it then?

  6. #206
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    because unlike you they don't ignore the parts that "arent pretty"
    Really? And what parts of the Bible do I ignore? Id like to hear this.

  7. #207
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    You could always deny what you'd seen with your eyes in order to preserve your belief that the moon was made of green cheese. If you really, really, really wanted to believe the moon was made of green cheese, you'd deny the veracity of the image presented in the picture. What this example shows is that, in view of the image in the picture, you no longer want to believe the moon is made of green cheese.
    you could say it. you couldn't believe it. wait. maybe you could. i know i wouldnt be able to.


    What if were a fact that a $10 fine were an acceptable punishment for raping or killing someone, would you believe it then?
    you're a tricky little one, aren't you.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/robert165/

    I'm just trying to do this Jigsaw puzzle, before it rains anymore.

  8. #208
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    you're a tricky little one, aren't you.
    The apocryphal saints? Oh, I'm sorry, the CANONIZED bible, as in the version approved of human powermongers of the church, ex-cathdra Petri, and what not?
    --------------------
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  9. #209
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Really? And what parts of the Bible do I ignore? Id like to hear this.
    which is it, peguy:

    the bible clearly says those who do not beleive in christ will go to hell. clearly. we can argue about what hell is like or how many times its mentioned, you can even drag out the names of half a dozen philosphers, but there is no arguing that the bible says, through a chain of connected declarations, that those who do not believe in christ go to hell.

    so, people are being punished for eternity, for actions or choices they made in a finite lietime.

    so, peguy:

    1- is this fair
    2- or is this unfair
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/robert165/

    I'm just trying to do this Jigsaw puzzle, before it rains anymore.

  10. #210
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    The apocryphal saints? Oh, I'm sorry, the CANONIZED bible, as in the version approved of human powermongers of the church, ex-cathdra Petri, and what not?
    The basic canon of the Gospels was largely agreed upon before the Church became anykind of powerful force.

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