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  1. #181
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    ? You earlier attributed part of the Bible to Paul. Was I supposed to disagree?
    it would be hard to reconcile a bunch of books written in different langauges across thousands of years --- if --- the books were written by men
    no, i'm saying the bible is in fact nothing more than a collected work wrttien, entirley, by men. it has no more signifigance or validity than any other text.
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  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    do you have any objective standars when interpreting the bible, or is it all about what you feel/think. if you have objective standards, what are they?
    I think you missed my point...

    What do you mean by "objective standards"? What would an example be?

    (also, I need to eat dinner... but I'll be back around later to continue the discussion I'm sure )
    "There are no answers, only choices."
    -Jennifer

  3. #183
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    I think you missed my point...

    What do you mean by "objective standards"? What would an example be?

    (also, I need to eat dinner... but I'll be back around later to continue the discussion I'm sure )
    here are my objective standards, to religion
    1- it has to make logical sense
    2- it has to be compassinate
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  4. #184
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Robert, you really need to look into studying some Biblical hermeneutics if you plan on having any kind of intelligent discussion on Christianity. You also might want to consider learning about how different branches of Christianity come up with their beliefs and what those beliefs actually are.

    You seem only to be familiar with Evangelical/Fundamentalist Protestant Christian ideas and are so emotionally invested in your own arguments that you can't discuss things very rationally. If you want a serious debate you've got to tone it down enough for some real give and take.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #185
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Robert, you really need to look into studying some Biblical hermeneutics if you plan on having any kind of intelligent discussion on Christianity. You also might want to consider learning about how different branches of Christianity come up with their beliefs and what those beliefs actually are.

    You seem only to be familiar with Evangelical/Fundamentalist Protestant Christian ideas and are so emotionally invested in your own arguments that you can't discuss things very rationally. If you want a serious debate you've got to tone it down enough for some real give and take.
    the evangeicals are the only ones who actually follow the bible. why should i care about a bunch of people who have enough sense to see the bible is false but dont have enough courage to denounce it. really, why should i care about their POV at all. all i would be doing is listiening to excuses.
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  6. #186
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    ^was Moby Dick only a whale?

  7. #187
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    ^was Moby Dick only a whale?
    ah, good point. you've got college professors, people who went to school at duke, harvard or yale, and they are going ot disagree, at some point, about passages in Moby Dick. So if you are presenting a book to less intellignet people, i think you'd want as little ambiguity as possible.
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  8. #188
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    "All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all; yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed, for salvation, are so clearly propounded and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them" (WCF 1.7).

  9. #189
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    "All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all; yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed, for salvation, are so clearly propounded and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them" (WCF 1.7).
    no. if something is neccesary for salvation, and you are going to apply fair standards, it must be easy to understand. there are more problems with that quote though. one can argue wether hell really has flames or wether thats just imagrey, but, there is no way to argue that hell is anything but a really, really, really bad place. not if you read the bible.

    salvation in the bible is pretty clear. not in laungauge, but in contenet. you've got to beleive in, and accept, jesus.

    thats not the least bit complicated. difficult to agree with, but not at all hard to understand.
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  10. #190
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    How did this go?

    A missionary went to a foreign land that had never heard of Christianity before. He introduced Christianity to the natives and said that if they didn't accept God and Jesus that they would go to Hell.

    The natives asked if they would have gone to Hell if the missionary had not come to their land and told them this. The missionary said no because God is a just and loving God and would not punish any of His children for simple ignorance.

    The natives then asked, "Well, then WHY did you tell us?!"
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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