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  1. #151
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    Or maybe it's indicative of the fact that my theology isn't point-for-point what you think Christian theology is supposed to be. Not to mention the theology of most Christians.
    chrisitan theology isn't supposed to adhere to what the bible says???
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    I'm just trying to do this Jigsaw puzzle, before it rains anymore.

  2. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    so whats the non-cheap way to point out that the bible tells slaves to obey their masters?
    What the bible does teach lead to the social trend described by Hilaire Belloc in The Servile State which lead to the decline and fall of slavery within the Roman Empire and the rise of a much more stable and less oppressive social order. It was one of the only examples in history of the over throwing of an oppressive social institution without mass bloodshed, war, revolution and displaced populations.

    However, so far as the institution of slavery itself goes it survived for a long, long time after the selective citation of biblical or scriptural authority was in vogue, I wonder why that was? Oh, yeah, that's right Darwinism, science and rationalism, who'd have thunk it?

    But wait, were's the evidence for that? Well, its hard to find because unlike the bible which is reproduced warts and all by Christians honest about their history there is no single volume or text or group of texts universally supported as the canon of rationalism and science. So there's nothing to be produced warts and all and scientists or rationalists can pass off frenology or other quack science and mad science as abberations which really are a variety of unreason after all.

    Although, the once biblical support for slavery acknowledged, who or what lead the modern campaign for the abolition of slavery? Wilberforce? Wait he was a Christian moralist!! Must not have read his bible :p

  3. #153
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    ah but it's ALREADY a me vs you delima, dont you see? you christains have the truth and the rest of us are going to hell. that you dont see this as a me vs you delima, is in fact, the majority of the problem.
    Yeah but you probably shouldn't confront Scott like he's the representative for all Christians and the wider culture war, especially if he's not trying to do it like that. There are plenty of Christians that don't even believe in Hell, too.

  4. #154
    Twerking & Lurking ayoitsStepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Because they vote.
    So THIS is the point of all debates. I see now.

    That's true, eternally, non-believers have much more to lose. But on this earth, maybe if Christians end up being wrong, some of them maybe would have liked to live their life differently; knowing that this is their only one.
    Well I can see where you're coming from and see how its a concern.
    But if I may be so honest, I have lived my life how I wanted to live mine.
    Some Christians may not have, but I think this is because they don't understand the concept of God. I truely think others believe its just a 'religion' and nothing else. But if you're a follower of Christ [and by your own choice, not your parents because they cannot choose what your heart believes in] then I've found that God to me is freedom and not oppression. I really think there's a big misconception and misunderstanding of such things.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

  5. #155
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Yeah but you probably shouldn't confront Scott like he's the representative for all Christians and the wider culture war, especially if he's not trying to do it like that. There are plenty of Christians that don't even believe in Hell, too.
    yeah but scot says if hell is a literal place he's not botherd that people go there.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/robert165/

    I'm just trying to do this Jigsaw puzzle, before it rains anymore.

  6. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    chrisitan theology isn't supposed to adhere to what the bible says???
    What you're describing is solo scripturum (spelling) one of the twin pillars of protestantism, not Christianity per se, it's a belief in biblical literalism and the perrenial truth and application of biblical texts both old and new testaments and that is makes sense without scholastic interpretation.

    Its not the belief or practice of the RC church which has always held that the church and church tradition created the bible and not vice versa, therefore tradition and the bible but first and foremost tradition is the most important source of Christian theology and dogma.

    In practice this is the case with all protestant congregations too, especially the older ones, they have traditions too, different ones to the RC tradition but they can not claim to be pure biblical literalists without denying their own histories and origins.

  7. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Yeah but you probably shouldn't confront Scott like he's the representative for all Christians and the wider culture war, especially if he's not trying to do it like that. There are plenty of Christians that don't even believe in Hell, too.
    Heretics.

  8. #158
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    What you're describing is solo scripturum (spelling) one of the twin pillars of protestantism, not Christianity per se, it's a belief in biblical literalism and the perrenial truth and application of biblical texts both old and new testaments and that is makes sense without scholastic interpretation.

    Its not the belief or practice of the RC church which has always held that the church and church tradition created the bible and not vice versa, therefore tradition and the bible but first and foremost tradition is the most important source of Christian theology and dogma.

    In practice this is the case with all protestant congregations too, especially the older ones, they have traditions too, different ones to the RC tradition but they can not claim to be pure biblical literalists without denying their own histories and origins.
    ok, none of that makes treating the bible as truth in a selctive manner any more acceptable
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/robert165/

    I'm just trying to do this Jigsaw puzzle, before it rains anymore.

  9. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    yeah but scot says if hell is a literal place he's not botherd that people go there.
    Hell is the afterlife equivalent of misanthropy or an anti-social personality disorder, it is not the work of a punitive, capricious or vengeful God, although it is depicted that way, either as a consequence of anthropomorphism or hostility.

    No, the inmates of hell hold the keys and the locks are on their side of the doors, they dont want to be with God, they have rejected God, as a consequence of pride, hate, any number of other evil motives.

    As a result its not a terrible concept, its not the gulag.

  10. #160
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    yeah but scot says if hell is a literal place he's not botherd that people go there.
    That doesn't bother me. In most people's minds, Hell is reserved for the worst; murderers, rapists, and such. The "If you don't accept Jesus you go to Hell" thing actually conflicts with a lot of Christian's interpretations about Hell.

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