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  1. #51
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    The truth wont always set you free. That is the ultimate truth, the truth beyond truths. Mankind lives in a world of illusions, and some of them are very much necessary for order.
    Yikes!

    Like what, for example?
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  2. #52
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    I'm a Christian (for the record), and I think parents should teach their children the truth as far as they understand it. For example I'm not going to teach my daughter to believe in Santa Claus.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  3. #53
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    In the end reality always wins, so it does have to be addressed. I find it disturbing to deliberately create illusions for children. I have a visually impaired student who is elementary school aged and she has been taught to believe in Santa Claus. She asked me several excellent questions about it, but I didn't want to fracture whatever system of ideas her family presents to her. I mostly just said stuff like, "boy, I'm not sure how that works", or "that is an excellent question, maybe your mom or dad knows the answer". Children are already vulnerable in that it is easy to trick them, but it seems moreso if they don't have the use of one of their senses to verify that reality.

    Fantasy can be a way to allow oneself to hurt others by creating a false reality that only symbolizes what we prefer to deal with and value, or by creating enough confusion that another person's view of reality doesn't quite work, or their trust is broken when they discover it is all make-believe presented as truth.

    Fantasy and symbols are important, but each individual should have a sense of control over their use. Being tricked into these is not necessarily nicest thing to do, although it is commonly accepted.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    In the end reality always wins, so it does have to be addressed. I find it disturbing to deliberately create illusions for children. I have a visually impaired student who is elementary school aged and she has been taught to believe in Santa Claus. She asked me several excellent questions about it, but I didn't want to fracture whatever system of ideas her family presents to her. I mostly just said stuff like, "boy, I'm not sure how that works", or "that is an excellent question, maybe your mom or dad knows the answer". Children are already vulnerable in that it is easy to trick them, but it seems moreso if they don't have the use of one of their senses to verify that reality.

    Fantasy can be a way to allow oneself to hurt others by creating a false reality that only symbolizes what we prefer to deal with and value, or by creating enough confusion that another person's view of reality doesn't quite work, or their trust is broken when they discover it is all make-believe presented as truth.

    Fantasy and symbols are important, but each individual should have a sense of control over their use. Being tricked into these is not necessarily nicest thing to do, although it is commonly accepted.
    It's evil to be sure. Dishonest.

  5. #55

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    When I was younger I used to trouble myself a great deal about what I beleived, what others believed, what was true and should be universally recognised as such.

    One of the instances that stood out the most was a reaction I had to someone speaking evangelistically to someone in the care system who was from a different community background to that of the evangeliser. I thought this was very wrong at the time, more about the needs of te evangelical than the child.

    I'm not just as worried about it now as I was then, as in it doesnt mean I lose any sleep, on the other hand objectively I do think just whose needs are being met is important and should be factored into the issue.

    For instance would it be a good idea to teach young children with little in the way of resilience, cognitive/reasoning capacity and copeing skills about the Rwandan Genocide, deliberate murder, rape and impregnation of non-Serbs during the Bosnian war, atrocities and holocaust of the second world war? It, after all, is truth, its only going to cause fear, night terrors and possibly even vacarious trauma.

  6. #56
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I'm a Christian (for the record), and I think parents should teach their children the truth as far as they understand it. For example I'm not going to teach my daughter to believe in Santa Claus.
    I actually agree with this. But Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy?? It's kind of fun isn't it? I recall my youngest daughter at 4 being told by one of her friends that there was no such thing as Santa Claus. She said, "no, that's not right, because her parents would never lie to her". I still feel a bit guilty about it because we were always honest and truthful with her. In the end though, I think it is pretty harmless.

  7. #57
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, your sweeping generalisations and pseudo-science dont make your case any more compelling, from your post all I can tell is that you hate religion and make certain condescending assumptions about religious people, I suspect this is all for some deep seated personal reason.

    Physician heal thyself.
    i hate what some religions are doing to people, not the religious people. its not the peoples fault if they got some mental problems. i see religious people same as people with schizophrenia, but less unstable and thats why usually less dangerous. i dont have eny personal reasons for this belief, im just sane and a rational person

    i dont expect enyone whos religious to understand that religion is caused by mental disorder. the main thing about having mental disorder is that you cant recognice it yourself and when someone tells you are insane and even if its proven to you, you still trust more your own reasoning rather than the other peoples arguments.

    edit.

    i ment mentally ill, because mental disorder needs to be abnormal for culture. so religion is not actually a mental disorder, even tho its an mental illness
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i hate what some religions are doing to people, not the religious people. its not the peoples fault if they got some mental problems. i see religious people same as people with schizophrenia, but less unstable and thats why usually less dangerous. i dont have eny personal reasons for this belief, im just sane and a rational person

    i dont expect enyone whos religious to understand that religion is caused by mental disorder. the main thing about having mental disorder is that you cant recognice it yourself and when someone tells you are insane and even if its proven to you, you still trust more your own reasoning rather than the other peoples arguments.

    edit.

    i ment mentally ill, because mental disorder needs to be abnormal for culture. so religion is not actually a mental disorder, even tho its an mental illness
    So Schizophrenics are dangerous and one of the main symptoms of mental illness is that you believe your sane?

    Yeah, on that basis you're no authority on either religion or mental health.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i hate what some religions are doing to people, not the religious people. its not the peoples fault if they got some mental problems. i see religious people same as people with schizophrenia, but less unstable and thats why usually less dangerous. i dont have eny personal reasons for this belief, im just sane and a rational person

    i dont expect enyone whos religious to understand that religion is caused by mental disorder. the main thing about having mental disorder is that you cant recognice it yourself and when someone tells you are insane and even if its proven to you, you still trust more your own reasoning rather than the other peoples arguments.

    edit.

    i ment mentally ill, because mental disorder needs to be abnormal for culture. so religion is not actually a mental disorder, even tho its an mental illness


  10. #60
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    So Schizophrenics are dangerous and one of the main symptoms of mental illness is that you believe your sane?

    Yeah, on that basis you're no authority on either religion or mental health.
    when did i say that schizophrenics are allways dangerous? incase you didnt know that when someone is insane he cant recognise it by himself, you need to do more studuying, i cba to teach everything to you. i never told that this is one of the main symptoms.

    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    A common handbook of medicine lists the following as common symptoms of schizophrenia:
    Hallucination: Seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, and feeling things, which are not there.
    Delusions: Thoughts that do not make sense.
    Improper behavior: Doing things that do not make sense.
    Formal thought disorder: Thoughts are confused and mixed up. This can cause a person to say things that do not make sense, and to think in ways that do not make sense.
    you feel that there is god, for example taking care of you or looking after you(hallucination)
    thought of something like god doesent make sense(Delusions)
    praying for example(or sacrifising in extreme cases) does not make sense to healthy person (Improper behavior)
    i bet the formal thought disorder i dont need to explain
    these are just from point of view of a sane person. for a religious guy praying does make sense, guess why
    these are just a few examples, there is alot more examples, but i cba to list more

    im not saying that i think that religious people are schizophrenics(even tho it has all of the same symptoms), i just view them both as mentally ill therefore pretty much the same

    my best friend has had schizophrenic obsessive–compulsive disorder for about 5 years and i pretty much understand his thinking patterns(or lack of healthy thinking patterns) and its pretty much same as religious peoples thinking pattern(or lack of healthy thinking patterns) when it comes to god or religion.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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