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  1. #21
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    yeah but the rational side of my mind, the atheist part, is just itching to get you to declare your views on god so that i can deconstruct them and prove them wrong. because, any view on god has to be flawed, since he can not be defined. definng what you can not possibly know is like a red flag to my rational mind.
    haha, this is of course a trait of the atheists. To try and deconstruct anyones rational reasoning of the existence of God. I'm really not in the mood to write a large wall about it but I may talk about it another time so be sure to be there when it happens.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    haha, this is of course a trait of the atheists. To try and deconstruct anyones rational reasoning of the existence of God. I'm really not in the mood to write a large wall about it but I may talk about it another time so be sure to be there when it happens.
    i'm looking forward to it
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/robert165/

    I'm just trying to do this Jigsaw puzzle, before it rains anymore.

  3. #23

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    If anyone recalls Pascals Wager there is nothing to be gained from a lack of faith but everything to be lost.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    If anyone recalls Pascals Wager there is nothing to be gained from a lack of faith but everything to be lost.
    i fail to see how one is supposed to "just believe"
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/robert165/

    I'm just trying to do this Jigsaw puzzle, before it rains anymore.

  5. #25
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Into It View Post

    Many people, even if they knew that there was no afterlife, would STILL teach their kids that there was one. We REALLY want to lie to them about this. I do not think it is reasonable. Where do you stand on this?
    Speculation. How do you know this?

    There is no lie because we all don't actually know what happens after we die.

    Arguing for the existence of God is just as pointless as trying to disprove the existence of God. You can't rationalize faith anymore than you can soften logic.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert165 View Post
    i fail to see how one is supposed to "just believe"
    No, I wouldnt expect you to just believe but like they say for those yet to be convinced of a point no evidence will ever be enough for those already convinced no evidence is necessary. So *shrugs*

  7. #27
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    Arguing for the existence of God is just as pointless as trying to disprove the existence of God. You can't rationalize faith anymore than you can soften logic.
    What is asserted without proof, can be disproven without proof.

    (Euclid -> Assertoric atheism)
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  8. #28
    Senior Member Robert165's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    What is asserted without proof, can be disproven without proof.

    (Euclid -> Assertoric atheism)
    good quote!
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/robert165/

    I'm just trying to do this Jigsaw puzzle, before it rains anymore.

  9. #29
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    But I do not think this thread was created to debate whether God existed or not.

    Let's go back instead to the real subject:


    Quote Originally Posted by Into It View Post
    I spend some time pondering the fact that the vast majority of people on this planet don't actually believe that they are going to die. This is testament to the fact of death being very difficult to cope with. Many of the more rational people I know, those who are not religious generally, find it likely that there is life after death. I think it is about as likely as the sun having a core of ice. The statement itself cannot be made without contradiction.

    The two things I credit for this vastly delusional idea of death are that religion keeps the idea of the afterlife in the mainstream, and equally important, we do not learn about death early enough. Many of us, while we are three or four years old, unable to tell what is fantasy and what is not, are told that our goldfish goes to "Goldfish Heaven" which is somewhere in the city's sewer system. We do not recognize death - one certainty on par with gravity - as a reality during the period that we are learning what is and is not real.

    Many people, even if they knew that there was no afterlife, would STILL teach their kids that there was one. We REALLY want to lie to them about this. I do not think it is reasonable. Where do you stand on this?
    1/ Thinking to death often means thinking to your own death. According to Lacan, thinking to your own death is the ultimate negative ontological experience, the ultimate paralyzing thought, litteraly the un-thinkable.

    So most of the time, when they think about death, people transform it into a deliberate abstraction, and hence feel not concerned at all. They constantly elude the subject because it is not thinkable (Cf Heidegger: "Man stirbt...").

    ---

    2/ As an atheist, just like you I see no evidence of an afterlife.
    Knowing this, I try to cherish life as much as possible, and not waste my time on vague premises. What is really important is the real world, real people.

    And an hour wasted is an hour DEFINITELY wasted.
    Last edited by Blackmail!; 12-26-2009 at 08:19 AM.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  10. #30
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragingkatsuki View Post
    Retyping and editing something I wrote sometime before. Personally I believe in God. I have thought about it and there is an endless logical loop about it. People stop at one point in this loop forsaking the other side to which they make their conclusion. Anyways, because of this it comes down to other factors. I go into the spiritual aspect which in turn tells me there is a God.
    I don't wish to start an argument based on the whole thing because:

    1. I know exactly the process in which people think about the whole idea
    2. We will get nowhere because people wouldn't comprehend what I say
    3. Every point people argue will already be known to me

    But there are certain atheistic arguments that are so pathetic they would make me want to bang my head on the wall. Especially the feeler type atheists who try only to use feelings to justify their claims. I understand the point of view of the atheists so arguing with one would be sad on my part as I would know what they would say and mean. If I were to explain why God exists on my part it would take quite a while so I'm not necessarily up for the job right now....
    To sum things up, you're saying something like this:

    "I think God exists, but I don't want to start a debate, since a) I know every counterargument one could possibly state, and b) people don't understand what I'm saying, since my thoughts are based on a level they can't comprehend. I for one didn't stop on the 'logical loop' they failed to fully explore. Nevertheless, certain atheistic arguments are pathetic. My ideas are so complex that it'd be too much time to explain them."

    Way to flatter your ego while evading a possible debate.
    I have a feeling that you're terribly full of yourself. No, don't blame it on your type, it has nothing to do with it. I wonder why though, did you invent or discover anything useful? Did you publicize a book? Are you responsible for a scientific breakthrough?

    It's kinda strange. Almost theatrical.

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