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  1. #71
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Like I say I dont know what your original question or point is, if I seem defensive its because you referenced the inquistion and crusades when it wasnt called for.

    Its a response you can expect if you attack my faith without cause. Cheers.
    I have some bad news for you . . . a lot of people have been killed in the name of "Christianity." Likewise, Avraham and Yitschak killed a lot of folks during their day as well. I understand my history, and I'm honest about it. I suggest that you do the same by embarrassing the fact that you guys haven't mowed over anyone in the last few centuries, and that Christianity had a pretty bad record during the middle ages.

    Those are just facts. I suggest that you deal with it and move on.


    Just to recap:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Also, Gen.12:3, which they interpret as treat the Jews special, and you will receive favor from God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    Did that interpretation start after the Crusades and the Inquisition?
    So unless you know the answer, please allow Eric to elaborate.

    And Merry Christmas to you.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  2. #72
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    Did that interpretation start after the Crusades and the Inquisition?
    Don't know myself, but I would guess after WWII and the shock of the holocaust; the general belief does permeate much (perhaps most) of modern American Protestantism, though there is less consensus regarding whether followers of Judaism still need to be "saved," or whether they are a "special case" based on the original Covenant.

    To Lark: As for the religion/ethnicity (certainly not "race") distinction, its not that complicated; a person can be Jewish by virtue of religious affiliation or by virtue of an ancestral culture based upon religious traditions. The reason there are "ethnic" Jews and not "ethnic" Christians is because Judaism is not a missionary religion, and the relatively few converts were thus absorbed into the majority culture (which included more ritualistic elements than Christianity, anyway) of the Jewish people. Christianity, on the other hand, is a missionary religion, emphasizing beliefs over rituals, whose converts far exceeded the numbers of the original Jewish members; the original cultures of those converts were therefore not subsumed. And yes, all of this is generalization, as there are countless differences between the various cultures of the Jewish diaspora.

  3. #73
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    These subjects can be a bit dicey...(and ones I prefer to avoid). Logic often gets lost in the collision. Lets try and both feel and see things for the various sides of the equation so nobody gets hurt. Both Israel...as well as Ireland are still reeling from history involving religious/ethnic/racial conflicts.
    Technically(according to my laminated, framed scrolls of academic achievement), I am an expert on this subject. Due to the nature of my being I often lose myself in collisions, sort of. Also, if I was an xtian I would be proud of my ancestors murdering non-xtians and dominating europe and other less important continents.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  4. #74
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaybeLogic View Post
    Technically(according to my laminated, framed scrolls of academic achievement), I am an expert on this subject. Due to the nature of my being I often lose myself in collisions, sort of. Also, if I was an xtian I would be proud of my ancestors murdering non-xtians and dominating europe and other less important continents.
    A nephew and niece of mine have Jewish blood on their fathers side and Irish on their mothers/my sisters I wish them a life only of love. There is even a myth that the Irish are the lost tribe of Isreal. I have seen what hate and religious strife has done in Ireland as well as Isreal. I hope they learn from their history and shape their own future by wisdom.

    I chose to forgive my ancestral enemies. My own conscience is clear of any wrong done to my ancestral enemies. At the same time I also see no glory in all of the lives lost by both side due to hate. This is my choice.

    Good luck in the choices you make.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  5. #75
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    Did that interpretation start after the Crusades and the Inquisition?
    You can add after segregation as well, because they would have been ostracized then as well.

    It probably changed with the rise of Dispensationalism, when evangelicals got heavy into prophecy, and the whole concept of the return of Israel and the rebuilding of the temple signaling the return of Christ really gained steam. They looked more at the OT "promises", including to Abraham, and then changed the tune about the Jews, although they would still slip out on occasion about them being "stiffnecked" and all that. (Like Pat Robertson has said stuff like that).
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  6. #76
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    How did it go?

    Forgive but never, ever forget.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  7. #77
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Can I convert to being Latin American? They have the best food and holidays.
    Just go to a tanning saloon every other day, for 3 months in a row
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  8. #78
    The Architect Alwar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    The Evangelical Christians in the US want all the Jews to move back to Israel because apparently you need that to start the Rapture.
    That reminds me of a documentary I watched awhile back about Evangelicalism where it was mentioned that there is a group in the US that has a cattle breeding program underway with the intention of producing a red cow or something that is supposed to fulfill some Old Testament prophecy and bring about Armageddon.

  9. #79
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    It probably changed with the rise of Dispensationalism, when evangelicals got heavy into prophecy, and the whole concept of the return of Israel and the rebuilding of the temple signaling the return of Christ really gained steam. They looked more at the OT "promises", including to Abraham, and then changed the tune about the Jews, although they would still slip out on occasion about them being "stiffnecked" and all that. (Like Pat Robertson has said stuff like that).
    So fairly recently.

    Thanks for the research. I appreciate it.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  10. #80
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    I have some bad news for you . . . a lot of people have been killed in the name of "Christianity." Likewise, Avraham and Yitschak killed a lot of folks during their day as well. I understand my history, and I'm honest about it. I suggest that you do the same by embarrassing the fact that you guys haven't mowed over anyone in the last few centuries, and that Christianity had a pretty bad record during the middle ages.

    Those are just facts. I suggest that you deal with it and move on.


    Just to recap:


    So unless you know the answer, please allow Eric to elaborate.

    And Merry Christmas to you.
    Excuse me but I'd suggest you stop hating on Christians, Christendom bequeathed all you and I know to the world, almost everything which is in existence today can be traced back to either originating within the Christian tradition or as a reaction to it and it all worked out through reciprocity.

    The middle ages were a violent time and you are confusing to readily and too easily questions of temporal power and conquest and the tradition as a whole, very convenient if all your intent on doing is hating on Christianity itself. Well done.

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