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  1. #41
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    An "ignorant goy"?
    I should have also mentioned "Somebody with an immense pride, and who does not take sarcasm and black humor well." :rolli:

    What do you prefer?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The Believer (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Its an awesome film, its only ever shown at insane times on the TV in the UK because of things like the swastika shirts, terror camp and attempted murder and violence but its a really thought provoking film.
    I'll have to keep an eye out for it. Sounds a bit like the Infiltrator which is based on the true story of the Israeli journalist Yaron Svoray who infiltrated Germany's neo-Nazi scene. I've also read his book on that experience.

  3. #43
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The Believer (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Its an awesome film, its only ever shown at insane times on the TV in the UK because of things like the swastika shirts, terror camp and attempted murder and violence but its a really thought provoking film.
    Sensationalism and voyeurism. Plus a morbid fascination for the Jews and their nemesis.

    Nihil novi sub sole.

    !?????? ????-??????, ?????? ????????
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I'll have to keep an eye out for it. Sounds a bit like the Infiltrator which is based on the true story of the Israeli journalist Yaron Svoray who infiltrated Germany's neo-Nazi scene. I've also read his book on that experience.
    I've seen The Infiltrator on sale, didnt know there was a book about it though, I was sort of unsure whether or not to watch it since it was based on real events. I liked the way that The Believer could pose so many dilemmas and questions but it only could do so because it was fiction, I think anyway.

    The actual Nazi scene is totally disturbed, I knew one guy at university who started out as a strange sort of sectarian Roman Catholic fundamentalist, he always was a bit strange and people had suspiscions that he was a closeted homosexual and he was also a couple years younger than a lot of students at the time because he'd been fast tracked due to a high IQ, an interest in Franco's Spain led to him becoming a bona fida fascist.

    In the UK and NI the nazi scene is very anti-roman catholic and the influence of American Klan protestantism is huge. I'd say that the anti-catholic ethos is greater than the anti-semitism.

  5. #45
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Hmm, if this is a private faith based school I don't see how their admission process should be up for review by the courts. If ethnicity is part of the religion's criteria for being a "real Jew" [and I don't know if you can really call it ethnicity] I don't see how they can regulate that, because it just gives the state power over the religion.

    I know virtually nothing about Judaism though, so my interpretation is probably off.



  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The actual Nazi scene is totally disturbed, I knew one guy at university who started out as a strange sort of sectarian Roman Catholic fundamentalist, he always was a bit strange and people had suspiscions that he was a closeted homosexual and he was also a couple years younger than a lot of students at the time because he'd been fast tracked due to a high IQ, an interest in Franco's Spain led to him becoming a bona fida fascist.
    Oh yes, I've encountered those types before. It's even interesting when they consider themselves more Catholic than the Pope as is often said.


    In the UK and NI the nazi scene is very anti-roman catholic and the influence of American Klan protestantism is huge. I'd say that the anti-catholic ethos is greater than the anti-semitism.
    Wouldn't surprise me. Anti-Catholicism was the mainstay of the Klan in the 1920's and 30's, far more than Anti-Black sentiment. The popular image we have of the Klan emerged largely during the Civil Rights movement of the 50s and 60s.

  7. #47
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Hmm, if this is a private faith based school I don't see how their admission process should be up for review by the courts. If ethnicity is part of the religion's criteria for being a "real Jew" [and I don't know if you can really call it ethnicity] I don't see how they can regulate that, because it just gives the state power over the religion.

    I know virtually nothing about Judaism though, so my interpretation is probably off.
    I think that is more a UK/US difference than a religious difference.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #48
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Anyway.

    It's not the first time English justice will issue very curious and partial judgments, especially when Jews are concerned.

    It already was the first and only Western democracy to specifically boycott Israeli universities (1), and things have not improved so far. See for instance:

    Tzipi Livni arrest warrant prompts Israeli government travel 'ban' | World news | guardian.co.uk

    Will this insanity ever end?

    ---

    (1) It's even funnier when you know the same so-called "Human right activists" who urged this boycott have nothing against close exchange programs with the universities of countries like Saudi Arabia, Syria, Cuba, Sudan, North Korea, Libya and Pakistan. Their focus is Israel, and only Israel.
    And yet, they pretend they have nothing against Jews.
    Last edited by Blackmail!; 12-23-2009 at 07:41 PM.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  9. #49
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    ...

    I'm still trying to wrap my head around how this is ethnic discrimination. It has to do with the validity of the conversion, not anything with the mother's genetic line. I mean, I have a feeling that I wouldn't be allowed into this school because I'm not "Jewish" enough, even though I have a Jewish mother and her mother had a Jewish mother, and her mother had a Jewish mother, and on and on as far as anyone can trace, because my family practices Judaism the same way many Christians practice Christianity here: only setting foot in a house of worship about two times a year.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Because in this case it is not. With a bit of careful reading, you will see that the Rabbi objected to the student as being "Jewish" NOT because of the mother's ethnicity but because of the manner of the mother's conversion. Whether this was right or wrong is beside the point -- the point is that this was an issue of religious purity and not ethnic purity
    Well you are right when you suggest the case in the original post is more to do with religion than race, but one has to understand the two are linked. It comes down to ones definition of what 'race' as being. I personally consider race as not only ethnic background and culture but also religion. Hence, I intrinsically consider the topic about a race issue.


    British law seems wishy washy when it comes to religious discrimination, up until a few years ago it is debatable if religious discrimination was even covered by the Race Relations Act. Since the passing of the Race Relations Amendment Act 2000, it is apparently illegal for any organisation discriminate against a person on religious grounds as long as the organisation have a ''religious purpose''.

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Hmm, if this is a private faith based school I don't see how their admission process should be up for review by the courts. If ethnicity is part of the religion's criteria for being a "real Jew" [and I don't know if you can really call it ethnicity] I don't see how they can regulate that, because it just gives the state power over the religion.

    I know virtually nothing about Judaism though, so my interpretation is probably off.
    It is a voluntary aided school, in other words it it is part funded by the public. In general, whether something is private or public organisation is pretty much irrelevant when British law and anti-discrimination law are concerned.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Anyway.

    It's not the first time English justice will deliver very curious and partial judgments, especially when Jews are concerned.

    It already was the first and only Western democracy to specifically boycott Israeli universities, and things have not improved so far. See for instance:

    Tzipi Livni arrest warrant prompts Israeli government travel 'ban' | World news | guardian.co.uk

    Will this insanity ever end?

    I do not understand the logic and reason for the boycott of Israeli universities. But, I do know Tzipi Livni deserves to be shot like her father, luckily for her Britain does not execute war criminals and her bastard of a father was able to brake out of prison.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  10. #50
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    Well you are right when you suggest the case in the original post is more to do with religion than race, but one has to understand the two are linked. It comes down to ones definition of what 'race' as being. I personally consider race as not only ethnic background and culture but also religion. Hence, I intrinsically consider the topic about a race issue.
    What do you think of the Africans converted by the first of the colonists there? Did they become European when they were converted?

    Sometimes ethnicity and religion are linked, but I don't think this is one of the cases where it is -- or if it is, that the link isn't particularly strong.

    I wonder what would happen if "M" in this article went through a formal Orthodox conversion, if they would still discriminate against him on these grounds. I also wonder if this rule makes adopted children with formally Jewish adoptive mothers discriminated against, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    British law seems wishy washy when it comes to religious discrimination, up until a few years ago it is debatable if religious discrimination was even covered by the Race Relations Act. Since the passing of the Race Relations Amendment Act 2000, it is apparently illegal for any organisation discriminate against a person on religious grounds as long as the organisation have a ''religious purpose''.
    I had a hunch this was more about British people than racism.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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