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  1. #31
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Guess!
    What's that meant to mean?

    In fact I'm at a loss to understand what haphazard means by being ignored.

    I dont believe anyone is using a single article to label an entire people, I just posted that made me question why religion and race in this instance seemed to be the same thing, surely that was the perspective of the oppessors?

    Anyway, this is becoming a waste of time, any time I try to discuss topics like this with Jewish people it instantly gets turned into a vast anti-semitic conspiracy. If you've got that view and its entrenched nothing's going to shift it, its the same as its polar opposite.

    Don your tin foil hat and carry on.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    That's mostly true with Germany, which came about because of certain historical circumstances. In many other countries, Anti-Semitism was more cultural in nature and often tried to assmiliate Jews rather than physically exterminate them.
    Have you seen the film The Believer?

    I think its an over complex movie because they try to weave just about every Jewish identity issue into a single feature, ie self-hating jew, aryanism contrasted with zionism, tribalism, exceptionalism, nihilism, the role of the holocaust etc.

    What I did find interesting was the idea of whether assimilation could be considered as racist as exermination or serving the same goals, the central character holds both views at one time or another for similar reasons.

  3. #33
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    In fact I'm at a loss to understand what haphazard means by being ignored.

    I dont believe anyone is using a single article to label an entire people, I just posted that made me question why religion and race in this instance seemed to be the same thing, surely that was the perspective of the oppessors?
    Because in this case it is not. With a bit of careful reading, you will see that the Rabbi objected to the student as being "Jewish" NOT because of the mother's ethnicity but because of the manner of the mother's conversion. Whether this was right or wrong is beside the point -- the point is that this was an issue of religious purity and not ethnic purity
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  4. #34
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    That's mostly true with Germany, which came about because of certain historical circumstances. In many other countries, Anti-Semitism was more cultural in nature and often tried to assmiliate Jews rather than physically exterminate them.
    True, and it's what I had in mind when I read the word anti-semitism (which is no surprise since the lecture I'm in is currently dealing with Germany in the 20s and 30s; unfortunately, other European countries weren't dealt with in great detail).
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

  5. #35
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, learn your history, terrorism drove the British out of British mandate Palestine, that was the creation of the state of Israel, not the waves of immigration which took place before that.
    You're asking ME to learn "my history"?? Are you kidding?

    Were you aware that anti-Semitism has a long and very rich history, long, long before 1948?

    Question:
    Why do you think Herzl created the Zionist movement, tell me?
    Have you heard of the Dreyfus affair, for instance?
    Why do you think a lot of Jews became disillusioned even with the most tolerant and socially progressive state in the world (back then)?

    The question is very complex, and you seem so naive.

    I used the example of the picts to illustrate the point that all states are created in violence, to contrast the origins of other modern states in ethnic struggles with that of state of Israel. Beginning to think that you're a contrarian and not worth talking with.
    My dear little Haphazard, were you asking why we were feeling ignored?

    Even when we try to state the obvious to an ignorant goy who labels us as racists, we are considered as "not worth talking with"!
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Have you seen the film The Believer?
    No I haven't

    I think its an over complex movie because they try to weave just about every Jewish identity issue into a single feature, ie self-hating jew, aryanism contrasted with zionism, tribalism, exceptionalism, nihilism, the role of the holocaust etc.

    What I did find interesting was the idea of whether assimilation could be considered as racist as exermination or serving the same goals, the central character holds both views at one time or another for similar reasons.
    Hmmmn interesting. Only recent film Ive seen that touched upon these topics is Protocols.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Because in this case it is not. With a bit of careful reading, you will see that the Rabbi objected to the student as being "Jewish" NOT because of the mother's ethnicity but because of the manner of the mother's conversion. Whether this was right or wrong is beside the point -- the point is that this was an issue of religious purity and not ethnic purity
    I'm not going to argue over technicalities, would the equality commission have ruled mistakenly, is that what you're saying?

    What it appeared to be saying to me was that parentage was important, rather than the child in questions identity or practice, the parentage was important because the mother was originally a gentile convert not having an ethnic origin of Jewishness.

    Perhaps that was a bit of slippage and the revisionists have been in to spin it as something of a more theological difference, this is also a later article, the original story broke on Radio 4 and obviously there is no link to that.

    I know this story is being treated sensitively because the last thing the UK government wants is to give an edge to racist agitators which are suggesting there are alreay ethnically exclusive Jewish or Muslim or Hindu schools in the UK teaching ethnic seperatism.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    You're asking ME to learn "my history"?? Are you kidding?

    Were you aware that anti-Semitism has a long and very rich history, long, long before 1948?

    Question:
    Why do you think Herzl created the Zionist movement, tell me?
    Have you heard of the Dreyfus affair, for instance?
    Why do you think a lot of Jews became disillusioned even with the most tolerant and socially progressive state in the world (back then)?

    The question is very complex, and you seem so naive.



    My dear little Haphazard, were you asking why we were feeling ignored?

    Even when we try to state the obvious to an ignorant goy who labels us as racists, we are considered as "not worth talking with"!
    An "ignorant goy"?

    Alright. I know all I need to know about you.

    Only willing to put up with insults as possible social ineptitude for so long.

  9. #39
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Anyway, this is becoming a waste of time, any time I try to discuss topics like this with Jewish people it instantly gets turned into a vast anti-semitic conspiracy. If you've got that view and its entrenched nothing's going to shift it, its the same as its polar opposite.
    If the results are more or less the same, it may be because:

    1/ The entire Jewish people is paranoid and racist, and you are the only one who is right against them.

    2/ Because you consistently miss the point.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  10. #40
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    No I haven't



    Hmmmn interesting. Only recent film Ive seen that touched upon these topics is Protocols.
    The Believer (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Its an awesome film, its only ever shown at insane times on the TV in the UK because of things like the swastika shirts, terror camp and attempted murder and violence but its a really thought provoking film.

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