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  1. #11
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Zionism = Jews now?
    As Habermas noticed: technically, there is a difference. But practically, there is almost none.
    98% of the Jews currently living on this planet are in favour of the existence of Israel (=Zionists).

    This doesn't mean they all want to migrate there (I don't want to), or that they all agree with the current policies of this state (I don't).

    ---

    Today, when somebody wants to express anti-Semitic feelings (especially when he's not aware they are anti-Semitic), he will most of the time use the term "anti-Zionism" as a disguise, or as a way to relieve his likely guilt.

    While you could still perceive a political ambiguity behind the term, it disappeared when Lark decided to nazify the Jews: indeed, it is a classic anti-Semitic cliché.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  2. #12
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Well Blackmail! is French so that maybe his weapon of choice.
    En garde mon ami!
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    As Habermas noticed: technically, there is a difference. But practically, there is almost none.
    98% of the Jews currently living in this planet are in favour of the existence of Israel (=Zionists).
    I can understand that. I also understand how many people disguise anti-Semitism under Anti-Zionism. However, too often criticism of Israel is misinterpreted as Anti-Semitism.

    While you could still perceive a political ambiguity behind the term, it disappeared when Lark decided to nazify the Jews: indeed, it is a classic anti-Semitic cliché.
    I don't know if it's really specific to anti-semitism. Basically nowadays when you oppose something you try to compare it to Nazism. Rather tiresome I know, but sadly that's how it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    En garde mon ami!
    As they say here: IT'S ON!

  4. #14
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I consider the views of Jewish elements like Russian Communist Bundists who opposed Zionism as divisive and escapist to be the more enlightened point of view.
    Have you noticed that 90% of the so-called "Bundists" have been turned to ashes by the Nazis?

    So do you really think that practically, they were right, and that every Jew should have followed their ideological crusade?

    It's wonderful to be an idealist (especially when you want to force others to be idealists too), but sometimes, you have to consider the real world instead.

    The Bund was a tragic political failure. No wonder you like Jews this way: a good Jew is a dead Jew.

    ---

    You know, I may not like the concept of nation-state, and find it morally flawed too, but practically, there are no better ways to guarantee the survival of an entire people. If you find another viable alternative, please, share it with us! And remember it's always easier to pretend the concept of nation-state is flawed when your life is not threatened, when for instance you're not Tibetan nor Kurdish. You may despise your own nation-state (Ireland), but believe me, nation-states are also useful -at least sometimes-.

    I will always wonder why so many people are obsessed to specifically compel Jews to behave more ethically than any other nation on Earth.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  5. #15
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Where I come from, there are a lot of Mennonite Germans. This is another example of a religion which is also a culture/ethnicity even though it isn't. Even for those who have long ago left the religion and tried to distance themselves from the culture, they still have many characteristics in common that are difficult to get away from: physical features, value placed on music, strong emphasis on social justice, reaction to harsh/black and white treatment within the church/community/family, idiosyncracies in speech. Even for those who no longer are Mennonite, they still are unmistakeably Mennonite!

  6. #16
    Sniffles
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    Religion and ethnicity has always had close ties, and probably always will Fidelia. Community has always played an important role in religious life, and in turn the religion helps bind the community together. Even within a secular context you need a "civil religion" to help keep society together.

  7. #17
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    However, too often criticism of Israel is misinterpreted as Anti-Semitism.
    Absolutely.

    You know the fable of the Boy Who Cried Wolf?

    But in the end, the Wolf really comes.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  8. #18
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Okay, so there are two ways for him to be Jewish: to have a Jewish mother and to go through formal conversion.

    Apparently for this rabbi, the mother's conversion was not formal enough so therefore the mother is not Jewish and therefore the kid isn't Jewish.

    I'm still trying to wrap my head around how this is ethnic discrimination. It has to do with the validity of the conversion, not anything with the mother's genetic line. I mean, I have a feeling that I wouldn't be allowed into this school because I'm not "Jewish" enough, even though I have a Jewish mother and her mother had a Jewish mother, and her mother had a Jewish mother, and on and on as far as anyone can trace, because my family practices Judaism the same way many Christians practice Christianity here: only setting foot in a house of worship about two times a year.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #19
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    As Habermas noticed: technically, there is a difference. But practically, there is almost none.
    98% of the Jews currently living in this planet are in favour of the existence of Israel (=Zionists).

    This doesn't mean they all want to migrate there (I don't want to), or that they all agree with the current policies of this state (I don't).

    ---

    Today, when somebody wants to express anti Semitic feelings (especially when he's not aware they are anti Semitic), he will most of the time use the term "anti Zionism" as a disguise, or as a way to relieve his likely guilt.

    While you could still perceive a political ambiguity behind the term, it disappeared when Lark decided to nazify the Jews: indeed, it is a classic anti-Semitic cliché.
    Wait, what? I wasnt nazifying anyone? Infact what is that and what does it entail?

    I think that a lot of the arguments about the state of Israel are bogus, I remember seeing a book are article which was entitled "Israel really exists" or something like that, too often the arguments over the state of Israel are abstract or ridiculous, whatever its origins or current policies, its there, its a success, it would be like someone taking Scotland or Enlgand to task because of the fate of the Picts.

    On the other hand I think Zionism is different, at its heart is the idea that Jews are a people or a race apart which dont belong any place but Israel, I dont really so how its so popular, especially with Jewish people.

  10. #20
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Absolutely.

    You know the fable of the Boy Who Cried Wolf?

    But in the end, the Wolf really comes.
    Yeah but then nobody gives a rats ass at that point.

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