User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: Miracles

  1. #1
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,630

    Default Miracles

    Do any of you believe in miracles? Have you witnessed anything Miraculous? Is it something you just consider under the same heading as paranormal activity or the unexplained or is it something apart from that?

  2. #2
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    Hype
    Posts
    2,078

    Default

    A miracle being that which is outside the laws/rules of nature? but how can such a thing be? It seems to be a concept very dependent upon how strogn and firmly one feels that their understanding of nature is, and how far that understanding goes. Hume's problem of nature's uniformity seems very relevant here - What makes one think that he or she has an adequate grasp of what nature can and does do? And if one has a perfect grasp of what nature can do today, why should they think that grasp will be perfect tomorrow? I find the denial of "miracles" to be founded on an illogical inductive inference (but then again, so are affirmations of miracles)


    Theoretical example: the laws of quantum mechanics tells us that if one throws a penny at a slab of concrete one inch thick, there exists a non-zero probability that the penny will just go right through. Not "bust" or push through, but GHOST through as if the concrete slab was a hologram or some opitcal illusion. However, this probability is SO low you could repeat the experiment repeadedly for several thousand lifetimes and not have it happen.

    Now, let's say, one day someone tries this experiment, and it happens. And they have it on video, verified as being legit and all that good jazz.

    The rhetorical question to ask is: Could this have been a miracle? Quantum Mechanics tells us its possible, but extraordinarily unlikely. Is it more likely that this event was "outside" the laws of nature, or that something else is going on? Did nature "flip out" when the penny went through the concrete, or was this that one event in 10^-58 (or whatever the P is) that QM tells us can happen?

    As a pragmatist, I see the word "miracle" as a kind of label when a particular event seems so off the wall or absurd that it's simply too much of a stretch to link it to what one conceives as within the laws of nature. It all depends on how far and broad one wishes to place the explanatory power of the "bounds" of nature, if there is such a thing. Obviously, those that believe in miracles think there is a bound to nature and there are events observable to us that are outside it.

    me? I'm not convinced nature has any bound - it has tendancies, not limits. A miracle is just an X-file in the filing cabinet of "nature's tidings".

  3. #3
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Posts
    1,690

    Default

    The recipe for a miracle calls for a lot of good luck, a lot of great skill, or a pinch of both.

  4. #4
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    Yes, because creation itself is a miracle.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    9,715

    Default

    Miracle.

    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  6. #6
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Posts
    1,690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    Miracle.

    That haziness at the top of the photo is a remnant of God's presence that allowed for the otherwise impossible goal.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    903

    Default

    Yes I believe in miracles. Without them my Christian faith would be pretty pointless, just a set of nice rules with no power behind them. I consider my conversion a miracle.

  8. #8
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,805

    Default

    Yes, I believe in divine intervention. But, I don't spend much time thinking about miracles in general. I suppose it is a reaction to growing up in upstate NY where the after effects of the last great revival are still felt. I mentally assent to the idea that God is at work in almost everything, but I am simultaneously suspicious of mysticism.

    I suppose I simply believe that most of the time God brings about the ends he desires through normal means and within the laws of nature as we understand them.

  9. #9
    Senior Member sofmarhof's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    327

    Default

    Listen to RadioLab's "Stochasticity." Basically, there are so many people in the world that absurdly unlikely coincidences are always going to happen to somebody.

    WNYC - Radiolab

  10. #10
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    NICE
    Posts
    1,721

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Have you witnessed anything Miraculous? Is it something you just consider under the same heading as paranormal activity or the unexplained or is it something apart from that?
    Yes. I thought you said something interesting once.

    But I read it again and decided it was vacuous humbug. And read it again, and decided it was the lonely mutterings of the lesser spotted, vacuous, autodidact.

    Merry skimming.

Similar Threads

  1. Miracles
    By gromit in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 03-30-2013, 04:41 AM
  2. Share your favorite miracle/anwer to prayer
    By Lily flower in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-01-2010, 10:54 PM
  3. Freaks Of Nature and Miracles
    By Mace in forum Home, Garden and Nature
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-01-2009, 07:02 AM
  4. The 5000 Yeap Leap, founding fathers, miracle that changed the world
    By Risen in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-16-2009, 03:08 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO