User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 45

  1. #21
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,934

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbah View Post
    You're not asking because you want to learn something.
    And you, do you you really want to learn something or are you just here to prozelytize?

    ---

    Anyway.

    If ever Mohammad would have lived in our modern world, he would have been considered as a vengeful, macho psychopath, who ordered the beheading of countless people "just because they offended him". Such was the price of his own pride.

    Whether they existed or not, we are far, very far away of the morality preached by Zoroaster, Bouddha or Jesus. Islam is incredibly violent, compared to its rivals, and what is really frightening is the fact that this violence is deeply embedded within the Quran and the immutable shariah. Islam is the only major religion that fully legitimize the use of violence, slavery and lies, if circumstances ask it.

    For instance, this debate on slavery within the Islamic world is simply surreal. The Islamic world and civilization has been entirely BASED on slavery, on an almost industrial and societal scale, much more than the Western World have ever been. For Africa only, the Arab slave trade drained almost twice the number of human beings than the West did. And those slaves were treated even more cruelly than in the Caribbean plantations (a lot less survived). And of course, you have to add dozens of million of slaves abducted in Europe and India as well.
    As a matter of fact, historians can follow the progress of slavery through early middle age thanks to Islam, which introduced this practice once again in countries where it just had been abolished.

    ---

    As a liberal atheist, I do not like religions or ideologies, but some are definitely worse than the others, especially when their values are unable to evolve during millenias. While there is a faint hope of redemption with Shia Islam (because it allows Itjihad), there is NONE so far with Sunni schools like malekism and hanbalism.
    Last edited by Blackmail!; 12-22-2009 at 12:14 PM.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  2. #22
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'd just be cautious of many of the mideval horror stories about Christendom, they frequently are propaganda from successive efforts by groups which see themselves as supplanting or eradicating Christendom, ie the rennaisance, enlightenment, liberal revolutions.

    Much of the mideval horrors have been exaggerated or attributed to Christendom and official sanction when they were not, for instance Witch Panics and widespread murder of innocents associated with that are akin to the south sea bubble, frequently it is not Christendom that is at fault but the madness of crowds and popular dillusions.

    Much of the social criticism which considers the crimes of inquisitors and others reprehensible were Christian in their origin anyway.
    +1. The Papacy actually outlawed torture in the 9th century. And how about this:

    Labeling idleness a crime may have been a bit strict, but the justice system in medieval England should never be considered backwards.

    Punishments for offenses in those days were perhaps even more sensible and humane than they are now, say some historians. [Medieval Torture's 10 Biggest Myths]

    "The common view of the medieval justice system as cruel and based around torture and execution is often unfair and inaccurate," said University of Cambridge historian Helen Mary Carrel. Most criminals received gentle sentences merely meant to shame them, Carrel said, with the punishments often carried out in the open so townspeople could bring them charity.


    Carrel presented her views recently during the International Medieval Congress, hosted by the University of Leeds.

    Medieval Justice Not So Medieval

  3. #23
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Posts
    446

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Mohammed wasn't a bad person, nor was what he preached bad. It's how others interpret(ed) it and enforce(d) it that made it bad.
    Having read some of the Koran, and other Muslim sacred texts about Mohammad's life, and having met or known seven Muslims, I think it's the other way round. Just as with the Bible, the texts themselves are monstrous and it's the religion's followers who choose to interpret them as humanely as they can (or very often, simply don't know most of what's written within them). Religious fundamentalists are the ones who see the texts for what they are. Unfortunately they still believe that they're true and that God will punish them if they don't live by them.

  4. #24
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6
    Posts
    1,108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    +1. The Papacy actually outlawed torture in the 9th century. And how about this:
    It's worth remembering that the English legal system as atypical of Europe, though, as it was mostly administered by the local people rather than a noble of some sort. That's probably why the which hunts weren't as bad here. THe people in Europe were used to having someone impose justice on them from the outside, so when a which hunter came along and told them that an old women was guilty of being a witch, they went with it. When they tride the same thing in Egland, the commoners turned round and said "Hang on, we haven't desided yet."

    The witch hunts in England only got really bad while Athew Hopkins was at work, which was during the English civil war. During that period people were scared and the normal legal system brock down, allowing him to do what he did.

  5. #25
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    Witch hunts were rare even on the Continent during the Medieval period.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    433

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    And you, do you you really want to learn something or are you just here to prozelytize?
    No, I'm not here to proselytize, which would be clear to anyone who has read the posts I've put up.

  7. #27
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,934

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post
    Having read some of the Koran, and other Muslim sacred texts about Mohammad's life, and having met or known seven Muslims, I think it's the other way round. Just as with the Bible, the texts themselves are monstrous and it's the religion's followers who choose to interpret them as humanely as they can (or very often, simply don't know most of what's written within them). Religious fundamentalists are the ones who see the texts for what they are. Unfortunately they still believe that they're true and that God will punish them if they don't live by them.
    +1
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  8. #28
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,705

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbah View Post
    Maybe you know already but I will just say for general information that there is a whole science in Islam (science of hadith) which focuses on sorting out the chain of people who transmitted information/stories and that evaluates how reliable that chain is, thus how reliable the information is and if it's used now or not. There are thousands of random stories about Mohammad and all things Islam-related. They can't be taken as true just because they are old and from that time. Some are really weird and just don't make sense. The thing you mention about how your wife's illegitimate children can be your slaves sounds rather like that to me.
    That's a nice start, but it doesn't mean much until a majority of religiously observant Muslims attend Mosques which only allow Imams that explicitly uphold freedom of religion, freedom of speech, equality under the law, and the effective separation of religion and state as universal values.

  9. #29
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbah View Post
    there is a whole science in Islam (science of hadith)
    This is a misuse of the word, 'science'.

    I find it hard to understand why. Is it that the writer doesn't know what science is? Or is the writer simply trying to add the kudos of science to their political religion? Or is the writer so deluded as to think there is, "a science of hadith".

    To say there is a science of hadith is akin to talking about the science of creationism. They are both a contradiction in terms.

    But when you consider we are talking about a political religion, it becomes plain that the writer is simply repeating their propaganda to us. The word, 'science', is simply being used for propaganda purposes.

    But what is brilliant about this propaganda is that when challenged, the writer denies this is propaganda or that they are propagating their political religion here.

    The writer not only gives us plausible propaganda but plausible denial as well.

    This is truly an effective and practised piece of propaganda. Almost perfect, except it is believed by the propagandist - the propagandist is perfectly sincere.

  10. #30
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,934

    Default

    Whoever master the meaning of words, master the way we are prone to think.

    ---

    But as a matter of fact, it's simply the same word in Arab (???), hence the confusion. Despite the claim often made by Muslim propagandists who glorify and make the Arab language sacred, it lacks a wide, rich and deep vocabulary, hence the vagueness of the words they use.
    Every semitic langage has the same issue compared to most of the other linguistic families (and that includes Hebrew as well), because they only use triliteral roots to construct words and verbs. And of course, the total number of combinations is very limited.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

Similar Threads

  1. A little bit of fine-tuning
    By yama in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-23-2016, 10:41 PM
  2. A little bit of assistance maybe?
    By Stergios in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-02-2016, 04:24 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-03-2014, 07:00 AM
  4. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-04-2009, 09:16 PM
  5. A little bit of this and a little bit of that...
    By Zrenn in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 01-06-2009, 07:48 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO