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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Default Mind Blindness and Attunement

    I've read books about how the innate survival drives within the brain from birth to infancy demanding the formation of attachments to guarantee survival develop into an attachment style (secure, ambivalent, avoidant) which then influence the capacity to develop what philosophers and psychologists refer to as "theory of mind", essentially the ability to form judgements about what others may be thinking and anticipate behavioural. Success or failure at developing a good theory of mind can determine your attunement to others which pretty much determines your success or failure in life and happiness.

    That's a lousy summation or synopsis of some pretty good recent psychological research, anyway, I've seen a lot of vindication or validation of this theory in practice, in life. Mainly work but I've encountered lots and lots of it online, in part I think this is because the internet can become a magnet for people who arent well synced to others and who wont or dont regularly comprehend feedback about themselves.

    There's a stock of responses and behaviours which I could list and I'd bet others have their own lists too of behaviour I associate with this sort of "failure to launch" when I encounter it. Appeals to imaginary galleries of onlookers or others who are believed to be in agreement but never in evidence, repeated attempts at humour which fail but which are in turn perceived as just further evidence that "no one gets me", "no one gets my humour", "hey, that in itself means I'm cool", that's just mentioning two of the most frequent ones I encounter.

    Perhaps its just trolling and no more comprehensive an explanation is required but I tend to think that with new tech like the internet taking on an increasingly significant role it might be important. At a time it'd be infrequent to meet someone else at work or everyday life who used the internet more than twice a week, now its not uncommon to meet people who check it at least once a day.

    Some times it really bugs me when people are behaving like this or vomitting their feelings up all over the place, especially if its in a medium which it does not suit, such as reviews on Amazon or feedback spaces on Amazon. That's one of my pet peeves. On the other hand I encounter it quite a bit in all walks of life and it bothers me too, really fuels any misanthropic undercurrents I've got.

  2. #2
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I've read books about how the innate survival drives within the brain from birth to infancy demanding the formation of attachments to guarantee survival develop into an attachment style (secure, ambivalent, avoidant) which then influence the capacity to develop what philosophers and psychologists refer to as "theory of mind", essentially the ability to form judgements about what others may be thinking and anticipate behavioural. Success or failure at developing a good theory of mind can determine your attunement to others which pretty much determines your success or failure in life and happiness.
    Yup, you're basically summarizing info in the field of Object Relations, which examines the development of early individual ego/self and how it positions itself to various elements of the environment. Of primary importance and study is how the infant bonds and interacts with caretaker figures, notably the mother. A noted psychologist Karen Horney contributed a lot of work to this field in the early/mid 1900's, and her ideas have filtered into the secure, ambivalent, and avoidant concepts. The Enneagram personality theory (as expressed by Riso and Hudson) actually works with these concepts, in terms of which archetypes position themselves in what ways typically towards authority figures; in that case, the major categorizations are avoidant, compliant, and assertive (resonating with Horney's concepts of "moving towards," "moving against," and "moving away.")

    There's a stock of responses and behaviours which I could list and I'd bet others have their own lists too of behaviour I associate with this sort of "failure to launch" when I encounter it. Appeals to imaginary galleries of onlookers or others who are believed to be in agreement but never in evidence, repeated attempts at humour which fail but which are in turn perceived as just further evidence that "no one gets me", "no one gets my humour", "hey, that in itself means I'm cool", that's just mentioning two of the most frequent ones I encounter.
    Sounds a lot like typical adolescence to me.

    Perhaps its just trolling and no more comprehensive an explanation is required but I tend to think that with new tech like the internet taking on an increasingly significant role it might be important. At a time it'd be infrequent to meet someone else at work or everyday life who used the internet more than twice a week, now its not uncommon to meet people who check it at least once a day.

    Some times it really bugs me when people are behaving like this or vomitting their feelings up all over the place, especially if its in a medium which it does not suit, such as reviews on Amazon or feedback spaces on Amazon. That's one of my pet peeves. On the other hand I encounter it quite a bit in all walks of life and it bothers me too, really fuels any misanthropic undercurrents I've got.
    My comment above was offered in jest, but maybe it was more true than I had thought. A lot of people here are younger and still figuring themselves out, and they're especially learning where they fit into group culture while retaining a sense of self and authenticity.

    There is also a wide gap in age here -- ranging anywhere from age 15 to age 60+, although the bulk seems to be in the 20's, with some 30's and 40's.

    And the final piece is, of course, a difference in generational mentality, where I think Gen Y ideas of community might differ from Gen X and Boomer community.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #3
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Yup, you're basically summarizing info in the field of Object Relations, which examines the development of early individual ego/self and how it positions itself to various elements of the environment.
    I wasnt sure it was object relations, I knew it was Bowlby and Winnechott and a couple of other attachment theoriests who I cant recall their names now who did the research and life span studies.

    Of primary importance and study is how the infant bonds and interacts with caretaker figures, notably the mother. A noted psychologist Karen Horney contributed a lot of work to this field in the early/mid 1900's, and her ideas have filtered into the secure, ambivalent, and avoidant concepts.
    I like Horney, I've read a lot of her books, along with Fromm and I think Horney's theoreis came from a life time of profound self-reflection but I'm not sure she came up with the three behaviours as secure, ambivalent etc.

    She did say that basic anxiety emerged from inability to make appropriate relationships with main carers which could then develop into a neurotic trend, which involved moving against, moving away or moving towards others in a variety of sadistic, withdrawn or masochistic behaviours. That's my understanding of her book Our Inner Conflicts, she also wrote about false/idealised versions of the self which became crippling later in life when people mistook them for the real thing in her book about human growth.

    The Enneagram personality theory (as expressed by Riso and Hudson) actually works with these concepts, in terms of which archetypes position themselves in what ways typically towards authority figures; in that case, the major categorizations are avoidant, compliant, and assertive (resonating with Horney's concepts of "moving towards," "moving against," and "moving away.")
    That is interesting to me, I've not done much reading about the Enneagram, although I think that it and the Socionics quizes are the most accurate for me, certainly there's not the sometimes introverted, sometimes extroverted balancing act that there is with the Myers-Briggs quiz. My first book on it is in the post but I dont know if its the one you mention Jenn, cheers for the tip.

    That is Horney's concept as I know it, the moving bit, the interesting thing to me was that her concept correlated so closely with that of Bowlby etc. in their observations of war orphans and evacuees, then later wards of court and children looked after away from home by social services, then later still the strange situation and stranger studies that later attachment theoriests came up with.

    I like to do that, find the conceptual correlations, I also think its possible to find this across time and cultures too, especially if you dont get hung up on language or jargon or context. Its how I understand Jung's revision of Freud and theorising of his own.


    Sounds a lot like typical adolescence to me.

    My comment above was offered in jest, but maybe it was more true than I had thought. A lot of people here are younger and still figuring themselves out, and they're especially learning where they fit into group culture while retaining a sense of self and authenticity.
    Me too and not just adolescence, I think that some adults are experiencing at least a prolonged adolescence.

    There is also a wide gap in age here -- ranging anywhere from age 15 to age 60+, although the bulk seems to be in the 20's, with some 30's and 40's.

    And the final piece is, of course, a difference in generational mentality, where I think Gen Y ideas of community might differ from Gen X and Boomer community.
    The generational thing interests me a lot, I dont know exactly how it would differ but I do believe it has a big reason to be different, there's been plenty of technological change and changed expectations due to social trends in prosperity etc.

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