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Thread: Sin and MBTI

  1. #41
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    As a fellow Catholic, I agree with Peguy on this one. I don't see religion and gospel inherently contradicting each other. Indeed, there are several interpretations of scripture and several religions. And as we should all know by now, the biblical books were written in particular contexts, by people, in time, in a culture, and with a message.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  2. #42
    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    I would postulate that the general the differences between Catholicism and Christianity arn't great enough to make them opponents.
    I believe there are many Jesus loving Catholics
    This is where we join hands and sing Koom By Ya

    Jesus is the JD
    You can call me Charles.

  3. #43
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    I am so proud of the Catholic Church. John Paul II was a BAMF who ripped the Communists. Love it. And I think actions as well as intentions matter, and that religion is a great blessing.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  4. #44
    Sniffles
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    [youtube="SCot5L54-dE"]Beauty of Catholicism[/youtube]

    Take Five, do you attend Latin masses?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    [youtube="SCot5L54-dE"]Beauty of Catholicism[/youtube]

    Take Five, do you attend Latin masses?
    This is lovely, Peguy. I find something about Catholic ritual very peaceful, soothing, and aesthetically pleasing. I have been to mass several times and once considered converting to Catholicism before joining a Lutheran church. I think that the Catholic church is wonderful in the erudition of their leaders and the care of their people and the community, and it's highly preferable to many other forms of Christianity - except for the rigidity of the dogma. There are just certain things I cannot agree with...the exclusivity of communion, etc.

  6. #46
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Disclaimer: I'm not a Christian. I am fairly familiar with the Bible, however.

    Briochick, Jesus never sinned, isn't that right? Yet when you read the New Testament, do you see a Christ who was never melancholy, never emotional, never despairing? I don't. Look at the passages about him in the Garden of Gethsemane, and what he said when on the cross. Read about the time he drove traders out of the synagogue. As for inaction, do you know the story of the raising of Lazarus? It's harder to say whether or not he daydreamed, but parables are hard to come up with if you're never pausing to daydream or something like it, and he certainly spent a lot of time alone. So how can those things be sinful?

    I would imagine most Christians wouldn't be comfortable with trying to type Jesus, but I as someone with no such concerns, along with most people I've seen analyse him, interpret his personality as portrayed in the New Testament as INFx. So I don't think you need worry about your personality type being sinful.

  7. #47
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by briochick View Post
    Okay, really I just put that title up because it was the most attention catching thing I could think of that was vaguely related to what I want to ask about.

    I've been listening to a lot of people (by a lot I mean...three, maybe four, lol) at my church talk about sin. I've heard what they're saying echoed before at nearly every church I've ever attended (I went to this one that was really more of just a social place, neither faith nor religious study nor social activism were really priorities for them, they didn't talk about sin). What I'm hearing is that self-focus is a sin, inaction is a sin (but so is being busy for business sake), self-hate is a sin, melancholy is a sin, being despairing is a sin. Day dreaming is a sin. Taking time for yourself is a sin. Trying to take care of yourself is a sin. Not using your talents is a sin.

    I'm pretty sure that *being* and INFP is a sin. I'm pretty freaked out by my conclusion. Not that I'm having a crisis of faith, I'm not, but I feel like I'm stuck in some sort of black hole were the very essence of what I am is what I'm not supposed to be. Am I missing something here? Am I taking their statements to extremes when they shouldn't be taken that way? If they weren't supposed to be taken to their natural conclusion than why didn't they qualify them?
    For all I know I could be misinterpreting them. It doesn't stop my confusion.

    They also seem to be authorities, they're older and smarter and leaders in the church and have attended Bible college. I'm just me. I'm well informed enough but maybe I missed something. Maybe. Maybe the most I can hope for is that God will wipe my personality clean and I'll be no one (they didn't say that, that's my natural conclusion).

    I'd talk to these women about it but they'd tell me I'm sinning by being overly emotional (considering a topic of conversation at the last Bible study I'm *sure* they'd say that). And, since I already know what they'd say and feel guilty about it there's no need to ask them. So, any of you who are of the Faith here, I'd love an answer, because I can't see one.
    Quote Originally Posted by briochick View Post

    I'm really battling through what I thought I read in the Bible and what I hear in sermons and how these ladies are taking the scripture.

    Ok, so the other week I was feeling really discouraged and I asked them to pray for me and this one girl (a leader in the group though not *the* leader) said that instead I should pray for forgiveness. Like, since when did believing the lies of satan (eg. you're not enough, you're too much, you're not special, you suck) become a sin? I thought the original sin was eating the fruit, not listening to the lies? But since then I've become paranoid that every negative feeling I feel is a sin, and ever negative thought that enters my head that's discouraging is a sin. Does that make sense?

    It's not my church's teachings, it's a few women in some of the small groups, particularly women who come from a local seminary. They're leaders but they don't preach, they're not deaconesses. I think they very much take the tone of "you're sinning and you feel guilty? Well, stop it!"


    Any chance you can find your TJ shadow and dispassionately explain to them all the ways in which they are (a) inappropriately using their presumed authority and (b) ignorant of you/your strengths and themselves and their weaknesses and (c) the Bible itself?

    There are INFP strengths all over the Bible. Don't forget to go looking for them. Look for patience, kindness, self-control wrt others, etc. I would also argue they sound like "out of the world" Xians rather than "in the world but not of it" Christians, which IMO NFPs are good at.

    I've encountered experiences like these and luckily my NTJness just get so bristled inside that in my weaknesses I just dispassionately pwn'em. It helps to not mind conflict, IDK if those are things within your abilities/desires.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  8. #48
    half-nut member briochick's Avatar
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    Wow, I go to sleep and there's five pages when I come back.
    ^_^
    Usehername: I think I would have to be offended, not hurt, to pull out my TJ shadow. But, I can do it.

    Compusliverambler: First, I like your sn. Second, you do make a good point.

    Argus
    : I liked what you said about religion vs. the gospel (though other good points regarding Catholicism were also made later). What does Kierkegaard have to do with all this?

    Cafe: You made some great points and thank you for the encouragement. Lol, I also fear I will become an old church lady. But in defense of those blue hairs, they are often the ones to financially support the church out of their pensions.

    Jennifer: yeah. It's really easy to want to be good because you (by that I mean I) want to please God and then all these people come in with all this stuff do to and not do to be good and I just find myself overwhelmed. But that's not what the faith is supposed to be about.
    -Brio

    "I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life; I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well."
    -Teddy Roosevelt
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  9. #49
    Senior Member Hirsch63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by briochick View Post
    I've been listening to a lot of people at my church talk about sin. What I'm hearing is that self-focus is a sin, inaction is a sin self-hate is a sin, melancholy is a sin, being despairing is a sin. Day dreaming is a sin. Taking time for yourself is a sin. Trying to take care of yourself is a sin. Not using your talents is a sin....they're older and smarter and leaders in the church and have attended Bible college.....they'd tell me I'm sinning by being overly emotional.
    It sounds to me as if your Elders consider anything you do that might be an inconvenience to them a sin. I have found it typical throughout my experience with various groups that there is a tendency for many to use the cloth of religion to clothe themselves as police, judge and jury rather than samaritan, healer and counselor....

    FWIW, my explorations lead me to this: Jesus spoke about the law, and the law is known by ten familiar admonitions. To "sin" is to literally miss the mark
    as if taking a shot in archery and missing. Your honest intent was to hit the bullseye. Despite your effort, you failed in a sincere attempt. This to me is sin, being human we may err and are subject to our mortal chains. Sin can be forgiven.

    Evil is another thing: The intentional disregard of the law for personal gratification.

    Thou shalt not mope?
    Thou shalt not imagine?
    Thou shalt not feel?

    You are right to question this sort of thing...though it would be insincere to deny that Jesus did admonish turning your focus outward to those in need. We all differ and what takes one person a year to achieve may take another a decade to realize. That is not a sin if the effort was there all along.
    Patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings...Steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you a king

  10. #50

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    I'm a Roman Catholic, I'm pretty traditional in some ways and pretty modernist in others, I think that despite Stalin scoffing "how many battalions has he?" when he heard about Papal condemnation of communism that the RC faith was threatening to totalitarianism (not because its totalitarian itself). I'm also a proponant of liberation theology, mainly as understood by Jose Miranda and Leonardo Boff but LT's a tradition not a fixed set of tenants like a canon law.

    I do think its important to have a perspective on right-wrong, true-false, vice-virtue, for thinking people it can give much to muse about and give rise to many a real abstract discussion but I think practically Nietzsche's "beyond good and evil" idea is rubbish, you can be extra good or extra evil but you can not transcend both, context or culture or back drop is also important but I do believe that there are universal norms to be discovered through reflection, revelation, reasoning just as there are universal laws in the physical sciences.

    To categorise everything as a sin is just as much nonsense to categorise nothing as a sin, Jesus was pretty clear in attempting to straighten out all the misunderstanding up until his life and ministry, these concepts, they're meant to serve man, they're meant to make the life we have here the joy/paradise it was intended to be.

    I dont like the tendency of some non-canonical communities of Christians to invert the authority of the RC church and brand it heretical, the reformation was tragic and a total failure, it destroyed the change within the RC institutions and society itself which were progressing a pace and only sort of work themselves out through the couner-reformation (it took until Vatican Two and later for things to really be set straighter), it also unleashed forces which went on to become the progenitors of capitalism, gross modernity (ie Machine Age Holocaust) etc.

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