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Thread: Sin and MBTI

  1. #31
    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    briochick, I was once apart of a church that started portraying the same conclusions.

    This is not a problem with Christianity but with the church. What they're doing is religious.

    Martin Luther rightly said that, as sinners, we are prone to pursue a relationship with God in one of two ways. The first is religion/spirituality and the second is the gospel. The two are antithetical in every way.

    Religion says that if we obey God He will love us. The gospel says that it is because God has loved us through Jesus that we can "obey".

    Religion says that the world is filled with good people and bad people. The gospel says that the world is filled with bad people who are either repentant or unrepentant.

    Religion says that you should trust in what you do as a good moral person. The gospel says that you should trust in Jesus because he is the only good and truly moral person who will ever live.

    Religion is about what I have to do. The gospel is about what I get to do. Religion sees hardship in life as punishment from God. The gospel sees hardship in life as sanctifying affliction that reminds us of Jesusí sufferings and is used by God in love to make us more like Jesus. Religion is about me. The gospel is about Jesus.

    Religion leads to an uncertainty about my standing before God because I never know if I have done enough to please God. The gospel leads to a certainty about my standing before God because of the finished work of Jesus on my behalf.

    Religion ends in either pride (because I think I am better than other people) or despair (because I continually fall short of Godís commands). The gospel ends in humble and confident joy because of the power of Jesus' life for me, in me, through me, and sometimes in spite of me.

    I normally wouldn't use this amount of Christianeese, but I figure you're used to it and can digest it. Like a slum child building up anti-bodies to bacteria. Because Christianeese is equivalent to bacteria.

    Now go read some Kierkegaard and tell the people at that church to suck it.
    You can call me Charles.

  2. #32
    Sniffles
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    Religion and the Gospel are opposites?

  3. #33
    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Religion and the Gospel are opposites?
    Indeed. It's a very profound misconception.
    You can call me Charles.

  4. #34
    Twerking & Lurking ayoitsStepho's Avatar
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    Well the religion seems to be based on rules,
    where the gospel is based on relationship with Jesus/God.

    Argus, that was all beautifully put.
    I couldn't have said it better myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

  5. #35
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Religion and the Gospel are opposites?
    Quote Originally Posted by Argus View Post
    Indeed. It's a very profound misconception.

  6. #36
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Peguy, it's an Evangelical thing. We like to think we aren't religious because we give the word negative connotations. If you look at the way he defines 'religious' I think we can agree we aren't supposed to be religious in that way. Maybe?
    ‚ÄúThere are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old‚Äôs life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.‚ÄĚ
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #37
    Sniffles
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    It's basically just fideism; which as a Catholic I can't support.

  8. #38
    Twerking & Lurking ayoitsStepho's Avatar
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    Oh, thats right. Peguy your catholic yes?
    Yeah, there's a bit of a difference between the catholic belief and the evangelical belief.
    Actually, I'd say there are several things that make them quite different.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Argus's Avatar
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    Fideism is where Kierkegaard and I disagree and Peguy I do agree.
    Being fideistic is not an evangelical thing but an individual thing.
    It also has nothing to do with the OP, which I think we should concentrate on, despite how interesting the potential discussion can be.

    Quote Originally Posted by ayoitsStepho View Post
    Argus, that was all beautifully put.
    I now have an equal amount of counter-statements in relation to my supposed "density".
    Thank you, ayoits.
    You can call me Charles.

  10. #40
    Sniffles
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    Yes there's alot of differences between Catholicism and Evangelicalism; which I really don't wish to get into at this hour. There is a sorta evangelical undercurrent within Catholicism with the chariasmatic movement. There's also the writings of Pascal.


    Concerning Kierkegaard, many of his friends actually speculated that had he lived longer he might've converted to Catholicism.

    "High Church" Protestants - like Anglicans and Lutherans for example, are probably the closest to Catholicism.

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