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  1. #21
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Lucid dreaming is as far as I have ever gotten. Is that the same as astral projection?

    Maybe astral projection is just an overload of the senses.
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  2. #22
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soujiro View Post
    This is not Astral travel/projection.

    Astral Travel, aka Out of body experience, can be hard to explain to others, especially if they haven't experienced it, and in this day and age "If science can't give concrete answers, it's seen as some paralysis/disorder/brain malfunction/ or some crap like that"

    I've actually astral travelled. Astral travelling/projection is not an hallucination, nor is it sleep paralysis, or any of that crap science tries to tag it with just to make it seem like it understands it. It is certainly not a dream either. Trust me, when you astral travel for the first time, you'll know.

    People need to understand that their precious science doesn't have the answers to everything, and only then will they be more open to the possibility that there are many things that are far beyond the scope of science.

    What happened that beautiful day:

    I went to bed just like every other night. A couple hours later I woke up. I got up and walked out of bed, but something didn't feel right. I looked back and saw myself sleeping. I was like "What the heck". The problem was it didn't feel like I was sleeping/dreaming, I felt real, just like right now. My physical body was right there in my bed, but my spirit had left. I looked out my window and above in the sky I could see another dimension. There was a tear in the sky and above that tear was a place different from this world.
    All of a sudden I started to float up, getting higher and higher. I could see all the world, everything, and I could see everyone. Before I knew it, I had gone above the tear in the sky and into the other dimension. I could look down below and see the world we live in. It was like looking out of a house from a window. The outside is earth, and the inside of the house is the other dimension. You can go in and out anytime you want.
    Anyway, when I went to the other dimension it was so beautiful. It was exactly what i thought perfection was. Like if I could copy and paste what I thing perfection looks like on a canvas, it would look just like this. I was such a beautiful garden. The next thing I saw an old man, white beard with a robe on, and a young play sitting down playing with Lions, but the lions were harmless. The old man looked like the perfect ideal of what I would envision wisdom to look like were it in human form, and the young boy looked like someone that I had known in a past life.
    I sat down with the old man and we played chess, while the boy continued to play with the lions near by. Then it finally hit me, I asked the old man "Am I dead". I didn't talk, but rather communicated through telekenesis. There was no talking in world. Like when I first crossed the tear into the dimension, the oldman and young boy had expressions on their faces that showed me they were happy to see me and that they cared. They didn't say "hello", but rather I knew how they felt by some form of telekenesis communication that I can't explain.
    Anyway, I asked the old man "Am I dead", then he stopped playing chess with me and communicated to me "It's not yet your time". All of a sudden I could feel myself sinking, falling back to earth, falling below the tear in the sky. As I fell I kept on asking them "What's happening am I dead yet". They simply waved and waved as I fell, as if to say "Take care, thank you for coming". As I fell from the sky i could see that my trajectory would land me back in my room. This time, I fell straight through the building and into my body. Right when I entered my body I woke up, and asked myself "Did I just die".
    Back then I didn't know what that was. Years later after research and reading, I found out I accidentally astral travelled. I've astral traveled other times as well, but I still don't have control over it.
    There are those that can do it at will, but mine are mostly accidental. It's very scary the first time you do it, and it feels like you're dead. NO, it is not a dream, you can walk around your room, you'll see yourself sleeping, you can walk into your parents room, you can be anywhere you want in the world, you can go to other dimensions, talk to dead loved ones, etc. It is real.

    Sorry i wrote this quickly without re-reading it, so plz excuse my obvious mistakes and grammatical errors.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soujiro View Post
    Also i forgot to add.

    I have seen spirits/energies. Spirits have called my name a couple times, have tried communicating with me, have touched me many times, i hear their whispers, etc.
    but back then I was young and scared and didnt understand what they wanted with me so I tuned them out.

    This used to happen to me a lot like crazy when i was younger(teenage days), and I lost most of it, but I'm trying to get it back now (23 next year), but it's a lot harder. Although it is coming back slowing.

    Maybe that might also explain why it's so easy for me to believe these things. Also it helps that I've astral travelled.

    It's very easy to deem these things are "false" when they don't happend to you, and if you don't have constant encounters with spiritual bodies, such as touching/hearing their whispers.
    How can you be so sure that these experiences weren't creations of the human mind? Maybe you're not giving the brain enough credit; it's perhaps the most complex structure in the universe, and there is still much we don't know about how it works and what it can do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Prototype View Post
    Maybe astral projection is just an overload of the senses.
    No, it's not sensory overload or anything like that. It's an out-of-body experience. Whether it's technically "out-of-body" is the only real question. It's not. But it's a real mental phenomena.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Into It's Avatar
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    For those who do believe in this, does that mean that if you were particularly good at it, you could peek over people's shoulders to glimpse their PIN number, or surprise a coworker on Monday with explicit details of his weekend Sexcapades?
    An inscription above the gate to Hell:
    "Eternal Love also created me"

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    How can you be so sure that these experiences weren't creations of the human mind? Maybe you're not giving the brain enough credit; it's perhaps the most complex structure in the universe, and there is still much we don't know about how it works and what it can do.
    Like I said, I don't blame you for doubting. It hasn't happened to you, and you want to explain it, but your only way of explaining it is by using science, but your problem is you don't realize that science doesn't understand everything.

    Like I said in my last post. I've seen spirits, they touch me all the time, I hear them, they've tried communicating with me, etc. This all happened when I was younger. I didn't understand them, so I ignored them. As I got older I wanted to understand it. So I started researching/reading. You see I thought something was wrong with me, I thought I had one of those problems science had deemed as an hallucination/paralysis/etc. I read up on so many things. No, it's not your brain playing tricks or you, or making you see/hear thing. The funny thing is I won't be surprised if I know more about these "science terms used to explain the unknown" things than you do.

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    No, it's not sensory overload or anything like that. It's an out-of-body experience. Whether it's technically "out-of-body" is the only real question. It's not. But it's a real mental phenomena.
    Wait wait wai, How do you know it's not an "out of body experience"? You haven't experienced it, but yet you are so sure. Oh my bad, science believes it has something to do with the brain so you follow along and believe. You do realize that science deems anything "out of the ordinary" as a mental phenomena. The thing I find funny is that skeptics, like you, assume that those who believe in these activities completely throw logic out the window and deem everything we can't explain as spiritual. No, there are many people who believe in these things and have done a lot of research to better understand. The funny thing about these skeptics is that many of them don't believe because it simply hasn't/doesn't happen to them, but they want to "explain" it, and the only way to explain it is to use science, something that doesn't understand it itself.

    Let me guess, you probably think psychics, mediums, clairvouyants, clairdescents, etc are people with certain brain disabilities/hallucinations/etc and that's why they can see, talk, feel spirits. You do know that science can't explain why psychics, mediums, etc are able to do what they do? Oh lemme guess you thought science had an answer for those "freaks" too? Or you probably think they are just hallucinating or their brain is responsible for it.

    The problem I have with people like you is that you assume everything in the universe can be explained by science, and if there is no data/evidence to support it then you either a)say it doesn't exist, b)tag it with a term, "seeing things", so that atleast you have some sort of explanation, regardless of how incorrect it is, for it. The second problem I also have with skeptics is that many of them have the whole "It hasn't happened to me, therefore I don't believe" attitude, which pretty much makes me talking to them a waste of my time because they disprove everything I say simply because it hasn't happened to them, and they give me a "scientific explanation", even though science itself doesn't have answers for it.

    Anyway I'm going to be on an airplane in a couple hours and I havent finished packing, and I will land in my destination in the next 20 hours, lol, and I don't know if I will have internet access at all where I'm going so don't expect a response from me for a long time.

  5. #25
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soujiro View Post
    Anyway I'm going to be on an airplane in a couple hours and I havent finished packing, and I will land in my destination in the next 20 hours, lol, and I don't know if I will have internet access at all where I'm going so don't expect a response from me for a long time.
    You mean you can't enter the astral realm and send a response that way?

  6. #26
    (blankpages) Xenon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soujiro View Post
    Like I said, I don't blame you for doubting. It hasn't happened to you, and you want to explain it, but your only way of explaining it is by using science, but your problem is you don't realize that science doesn't understand everything.
    It seems to me he does realize that, since he said above that there is much we don't understand about the brain. And there is. There is plenty science cannot currently explain, especially in the area of neuroscience and how our own conscious experiences are created. Just because science doesn't know exactly why something happens doesn't mean it's paranormal. Just because you felt as if you were truly leaving your body and entering some other world doesn't mean you were. Hallucinations (and dreams at times) can feel very real.And, just because you've "researched" these experiences and come up with some writings from people who believe they are genuine out-of-body experiences, doesn't mean these people necessarily know any more than any of us do.

    You said my experiences weren't really astral travel, and yours were. Mine had some commonalities with those of people who believe they've had out of body experiences (sense of floating, sense of having left my body, sense of impending doom). And, I didn't completely describe all my experiences; I just gave some examples. So, what makes an experience astral travel? Do you need to float or fly out of the house and through the sky? This happened to me once; I didn't see anything interesting though. Do you need to encounter some spiritual being? This never happened to me, but it's happened to others who've had similar experiences (often it's just a "sensed presence" but sometimes people actually see and interact with them). Do you need to feel a strange sense that this experience is intense and profound, a sense that's difficult to put into words? I did feel this a couple times. And I did get very disturbed by it, and I wondered if I was having some mystical experience, or if, on the other hand, I had some serious neurological disorder, and I read about out-of-body experiences and "spiritual emergencies" and types of meditation practices as well as brain tumors and MS. (I was also experiencing depersonalization while I was awake in addition to the sleep episodes, which was part of why I was so disturbed).

    So, I did research both scientific and "spiritual" explanations, and in the end concluded it's most likely neurological and related to disturbances in the sleep-wake transition. I did not automatically go with the scientific explanation, as you seem to assume must be necessary to arrive at this conclusion. (I am generally very skeptical of this kind of thing now, but when I first had these experiences I was younger and more...well, you would call it open-minded).

    Quote Originally Posted by Soujiro View Post
    Wait wait wai, How do you know it's not an "out of body experience"? You haven't experienced it, but yet you are so sure. Oh my bad, science believes it has something to do with the brain so you follow along and believe. You do realize that science deems anything "out of the ordinary" as a mental phenomena. The thing I find funny is that skeptics, like you, assume that those who believe in these activities completely throw logic out the window and deem everything we can't explain as spiritual. No, there are many people who believe in these things and have done a lot of research to better understand. The funny thing about these skeptics is that many of them don't believe because it simply hasn't/doesn't happen to them, but they want to "explain" it, and the only way to explain it is to use science, something that doesn't understand it itself.

    The problem I have with people like you is that you assume everything in the universe can be explained by science, and if there is no data/evidence to support it then you either a)say it doesn't exist, b)tag it with a term, "seeing things", so that atleast you have some sort of explanation, regardless of how incorrect it is, for it. The second problem I also have with skeptics is that many of them have the whole "It hasn't happened to me, therefore I don't believe" attitude, which pretty much makes me talking to them a waste of my time because they disprove everything I say simply because it hasn't happened to them, and they give me a "scientific explanation", even though science itself doesn't have answers for it.
    Wait wait wai, How do you know it truly is an "out of body experience"? You have no evidence, but yet you are so sure. Oh my bad, plenty of new agey types who've written online articles and books believe it has something to do with the soul actually leaving the body so you follow along and believe. You do realize that many of these "experts" deem anything "out of the ordinary" as a mystical phenomena. The thing I find funny is that believers, like you, assume that those who are interested in current scientific research completely throw alternative explanations out the window and grasp for any scientific explanation available, no matter how implausible. No, there are many people who believe in the ability of the brain to cause fascinating and bizarre experiences and have done a lot of research to better understand. The funny thing about these "spiritual" types is that many of them believe things just because they've "felt" them to be so but they want to insist their experiences have some profound and certain meaning, and the only way to be so certain it is to dismiss scientific explanations, which, in spite of not completely explaining the phenomenon (far from it), offer clues and correlations that suggest possible causes.

    The problem I have with people like you is that you assume you can be certain of objective reality because of your own individual subjective experiences, and if there is no data/evidence to support it then you either a)act as if you are above all that science stuff b)tag it with a mystical-sounding term, "astral projection", so that at least you have some sort of meaning attached to it, regardless of how off-the-wall it is. The second problem I also have with new agey people is that many of them have the whole "I felt it was so, therefore it must be so" attitude, which pretty much makes me talking to them a waste of my time because they brush off everything I say simply because it doesn't support their own subjective experiences and the meaning they've attached to them, and they give me a "spiritual explanation", even though scientific studies have, in fact, come up with findings that suggest other possible causes.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soujiro View Post
    It's very easy to deem these things are "false" when they don't happend to you, and if you don't have constant encounters with spiritual bodies, such as touching/hearing their whispers.
    It's easy to deem these things false because the people that claim to experience them cannot prove it. It's like claims of aliens or supernatural powers that disperse into nothingness when under actual observation.

    For example, I can predict lottery numbers with perfect accuracy, but only when I haven't told anyone else, written it down, or bought a ticket. But I totally knew.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Haven't done it but I've read the military had people trained in remote viewing which is like astral projection.

    One of the most interesting components of the research done into the out of body experience phenomena was the U.S military study into using astral projection as a spying technique on foreign countries and other miscellaneous enemies. As far fetched as it sounds, the CIA conducted an experiment in remote viewing, or "seeing at a distance" that employed a series of highly regarded psychic spies, as well as ordinary military intelligence as a way to peek both at the possibilities of using ESP in warfare, as well as of course, seeing what the other guys were REALLY doing over "there"...

    After about a decade or so, the "official" lab was closed, and it's results were released to congressional oversight and review. The operation was called "Star-gate" and any simple search engine query will offer eons of reading on the incredible results turned in by some of the highly trained psychic spies employed to peek behind enemy lines...while they're bodies were many thousands of miles away!

    The most famous of these paranormal guinea pigs is Indigo Swann, whose accuracy in remote viewing is unexplainable by any currently known scientific standard or process. His ability to see, via powers we do not yet understand, people, places and things in geographical locales many miles, and even countries away, is simply jaw dropping. Several other participants of project Star-gate have gone on to very celebrated careers as authors and speakers on Astral Projection, psychic ability and one or two actively teach the skill to others in workshops around the world. A bestselling book also emanated from the same group, "Psychic Spies", which highlights the experiences of one of the remote viewers during these experiments - his claim of developing psychic powers after being shot in the head during the Vietnam war was bolstered considerably after showing off these skills for an incredulous military audience.

  9. #29
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    Haven't done it but I've read the military had people trained in remote viewing which is like astral projection.
    Yea, anyone who has been reading Dan Brown's new book would have been reminded of this techneque (which fall into a category of Noetic Science... which looks a relatively new term - but researching a very old phenominon).

    The military call it Removte Viewing, mystics call it astral projection and there are a vareity of other lables....

    One of the more interesting versions was something called Bilocation, Padre Pio was said to have done this a lot during the war - bring safty to towns people... He is an interesting person... and is on his way to cannonisation I think if he has not already been canonised.

    Padre Pio The Mystic - Bilocation

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