MBTI and Islam

[wank]

If its crap what the hell is he doing here.

He is, per his words: The Loyal Opposition

perhaps he has positive intensions or something, it really isn't a big deal to me.

I find it interesting when people go on the logic train,"If person doesn't like x, and I partake in a group that centralizes on x, why does said person keep showing up."
...and then when I see they have jumped, headlong, off that train, before it rails towards an answer... It makes me wonder(something about putting effort into thought or something,... I don't know, I don't pay too much attention to what I wonder...).

wank paraphrasing rest of post: Defensive rationalization and correlations(with how Kambro is an exception of the theory[and therefore not like everyone else he subjects the theory to]) as evidence.

Secondary paraphrase for further context: Different people are different, that's why this theory applies so well!

k.

Why do you feel it's necessary?
...and can you explain to me how this sort of endeavor is not actively limiting your perception of people?

 

[Kambro]

k.

Why do you feel it's necessary?
...and can you explain to me how this sort of endeavor is not actively limiting your perception of people?

Busy derailing the thread but:

I am not saying I am different - what I am saying is that typology will not be 100% accurate because we cannot generalise INTJ's or ENTJ's (my faves ) and am giving myself as an example. However, that does not negate the principles and guidance provided by MBTI. For me it is a guide, a starting point, which helps you to analyse the specific person i.e. I am saying just as it is risky with me so it is foolish to say because x and y are ENTJ's thus they will behave the same in a similar situation. That would not be true because they would have different ratings on their E, N, T and J. Also I believe that one's experience does affect you. It is acknowledged that as you become older, you develop your other aspects. Therefore it is possible that we could develop earlier or even one before it is expected to develop.

The MBTI theory still holds in such a case but you need to accommodate the uniqueness.

Hope this makes sense?

 

[simulatedworld]

The man, the myth, the legend (in his own mind) has spoken!
Now that the bullshit is out of the way, Victor is a raging N.
Victor eats, sleeps, walks, and talks metaphor.


Now, go make me a dirty martini so I can be nice when reading your posts.
We have winds gusting at 40-50 m.p.h. right now,
and the damn lights keep going on and off like the synapses in your brain.

I disagree. I think he's the brand of ISFP that has developed Ni to a much higher degree than Se (which itself is very underdeveloped), hence his own self-described extreme introversion. You're seeing primarily Fi+Ni--he's clearly motivated by deeply held personal values (Fi), and his Ni is evident in the bizarre conspiracy theories and constant redefinition of every question from a new perspective. His posts are very hit or miss for me. Note that there's no strong extroverted function connecting him to external reality.

Being an S type doesn't preclude him from having strong Ni--I would think you'd be the one to point that out here, in fact.

You know, the fact that you seem so emotional about this totally gives credence to his trolling abilities. Because he is opposed to you, you have this pleasant confirmation bias of his 'type'[if you need explanation, I can give], further lending credence to his saying typology is crap. You make me smile

elsewhile: ...Still holdin' out to see some Islamic scripture for a referential base of various views.

The sad part is he's not actually trolling. He genuinely believes this stuff.

On a side note--you're an NFP, aren't you? Attaching emotional motivation to everything (especially in total ignorance of context) is usually a good tipoff.

 

[Kambro]

I disagree. I think he's the brand of ISFP that has developed Ni to a much higher degree than Se (which itself is very underdeveloped), hence his own self-described extreme introversion. You're seeing primarily Fi+Ni--he's clearly motivated by deeply held personal values (Fi), and his Ni is evident in the bizarre conspiracy theories and constant redefinition of every question from a new perspective. His posts are very hit or miss for me. Note that there's no strong extroverted function connecting him to external reality.

Being an S type doesn't preclude him from having strong Ni--I would think you'd be the one to point that out here, in fact.




The sad part is he's not actually trolling. He genuinely believes this stuff.

On a side note--you're an NFP, aren't you? Attaching emotional motivation to everything (especially in total ignorance of context) is usually a good tipoff.

Thanks for a very interesting observation. Your analysis ( I hasten to add I do not know if it is true) reflects my post that one can get people behaving different from expected type but that does not negate MBTI which accommodates fact that one can chnage, thus sometimes the request that one must type your self based on earlier behaviour or not typing kids with the same tests.

 

[wank]

The sad part is he's not actually trolling. He genuinely believes this stuff.

Trolling is getting, out of people, a proper reaction, Not whether or not he believes it.
An atheist can troll an Islamic forum and so forth...

Further, I feel that if they(a troll) stir up just enough trouble, they can be an extremely positive thing(I'm not trying to infer Victor to be that positive thing, simply that he has the potential, like any good troll.) Though it's easier(and therefore more likely) for a troll to do nothing positive.

On a side note--you're an NFP, aren't you? Attaching emotional motivation to everything (especially in total ignorance of context) is usually a good tipoff.

I am inclined to believe that emotion is the basis for action(it begets intent[ensues dualistic thinking{possibly a superfluous additive}]). Your output action, based on said intention, may, or may not, pattern in a polarized fashion to underscore said emotion(based on whether or not you're meting out a deceptive filter[which is not necessarily a bad thing]).

...(especially in total ignorance of context)...

This is play by play of what I had seen(at the time):

Victor's tertiary Ni (he is ISFP) goes absolutely nuts when it comes to Islam. ...

An attempt to disassociate him from the group(naming him 'S' to a predominantly(supposedly) 'N' populace, as a matter of discredence.(I hadn't yet perceived explanation for your conclusion of his typing[I even went so far as to do a short query for the answer, but found only one quick reference to he as an ISFP within the last couple of months(I think), by you, that didn't detail an explanation within a page or two of said post. Perhaps a more in-depth search would have done me better.].)

<Victor is a fluffybunny!>

Cannot deal with views presented, and/or disagree profusely. Further, unnecessary pejorative language indicates emotional attachment to this person(posts are blockable if you care enough).

... Nobody cares.

Speaking for the group in this manner, from how I've come to understand, is an emotional reaction. It also posits that you care.

-------

Curious thought though, an 'I' with a strong 'N', could easilly output any characterized pattern, especially with trolling in mind. This is why this sort of thing(mbti or typology in general) is supposed to be decided for self only, because of the flawed impositions of others, based on ignorance of context(though we are totally precluded from that, as we know what's up[so to speak(wink)]),...

 

[Kambro]

...


Speaking for the group in this manner, ,...

Certainly he represents my views

In any case thread totally derailed LOL

 

[simulatedworld]

Thanks for a very interesting observation. Your analysis ( I hasten to add I do not know if it is true) reflects my post that one can get people behaving different from expected type but that does not negate MBTI which accommodates fact that one can chnage, thus sometimes the request that one must type your self based on earlier behaviour or not typing kids with the same tests.

Thanks. I see these types more as complete four-function models that can emphasize different priorities and value systems at different times for different people and in different situations. Our conspiracy theory-slinging buddies on the board here love to ramble on and on about how it puts people in unrealistic boxes, but if you think that then you're missing some fundamental concepts regarding functional structure.

By the way, wank--

An attempt to disassociate him from the group(naming him 'S' to a predominantly(supposedly) 'N' populace, as a matter of discredence.(I hadn't yet perceived explanation for your conclusion of his typing[I even went so far as to do a short query for the answer, but found only one quick reference to he as an ISFP within the last couple of months(I think), by you, that didn't detail an explanation within a page or two of said post. Perhaps a more in-depth search would have done me better.].)

No explanation of your theory is necessary. You think I've labeled Victor an S because you assume that I think all Ss are stupid and that anyone who disagrees with me must therefore be an S.

In truth, you couldn't be more wrong--my position here clearly argues for many Sensors having stronger iNtuition than most Ns give them credit for. In fact, the other type that I consider likely for Victor is INTJ lacking strong Te, because then you'd see Ni+Fi the same way the ISFP mold lacking a strong auxiliary function produces Fi+Ni.

You have to take all four functions into account; many people frequently emphasize the tertiary above the auxiliary. All four come together in varying proportions to produce unique combinations of real people.

Cannot deal with views presented, and/or disagree profusely. Further, unnecessary pejorative language indicates emotional attachment to this person(posts are blockable if you care enough).

Either that or, as you haven't bothered to find out before making silly accusations, I've been through this issue with Victor before and I know that his rampant Islamophobia is paranoid and irrational. This is what happens when Ni doesn't have a strong extroverted function to balance its subjective interpretations with objective reality.

Think Dale Gribble (INTJ)--"That or the Chinese are makin' their move!" His Ni imagines the most absurd explanations for things and his rather deficient Te doesn't balance out his subjective internal perceptions enough to give him any sense of external objectivity--i.e., conspiracy theorist nutjob.

 

[wank]

... You think ...

Thought. I detailed my perspective held in a defensive manner. I meant nothing more by it.

silly accusations, ...

My apologies(I'm serious). I have been outed for having less perspective.

 

[Lark]

I disagree with this. You have to see the Middle East in the context of its history of colonialism and the subsequent propping up by Western powers of puppet governments there. Not to mention the on-going occupation of Palestine. I disagree that “political Islamists” envy the West for its prosperity. There are a lot of pro-Western Arabs but the “political Islamists” especially do not envy the West. In my experience, many people from the West automatically assume that their way of life is the best way and that other people would be very happy to live like them and should envy them and they pity the poor Arabs, Asians or whatever because they aren't “free”. It's not true. There are millions of people who don't want to live like that and don't envy it.

I didnt say envy the way of life, I said envy the prosperity, rejecting the way of life precludes the prosperity. So far as freedom etc. and not wishing to live that way you'd have to define your terms.

I think there's a problem with isolating political islam to the Arabic world, middle east or Palestine, the elements who went en masse to fight in Bosnia or the ongoin Chechen violence and terror attacks in Europe and Russia I dont see has having anything to do with colonialism or post-colonialism. I say that because I've read their promo literature first hand and they say so.

 

[Lark]

I find this is a very common view in the West of how Islam is seen. Like looking at Islam and judging it through the lens of a very specific cultural context of the Catholic Church, the break from it of Protestants, the Enlightenment, etc. You cannot assume that Islam is the same as Christianity, that its presence in traditionally Islamic cultures and societies is the same as that of Christianity in its history. In traditionally Christian cultures Christianity stood for something backward, and leaving behind the irrationalities of Christian doctrine meant embracing “modernity”, “rationality” and “secularism”, etc. The links in these associations are hardly questioned by many people who think it's normal and just assume it. Islam of course did not develop in the same way, it has its own context and its teachings are different, although very similar in many ways to Christian ones. You can't just say that it should also go the way of the Rennaisance, the Enlightenment, etc. That just doesn't make sense.

No, I didnt suggest that it should go the same way, that is as ridiculous as all the third world dictators who bought tractors designed for central european climates and attempted to deploy them in subsaharan Africa.

I'm not sure I accept some of the dichotomies you set up in this post, however their very existence and our ability to debate it is a consequence of or legacy the processes of dynamic reflection and maturation which I was indicating when I mentioned the rennaisance, enlightenment etc. I'm not being eurocentric but I do feel you are being biased by attributing so much to me instead of asking me yourself.

 

[Jaguar]

Being an S type doesn't preclude him from having strong Ni--I would think you'd be the one to point that out here, in fact.

Absolutely true, Sim. But I don't think that's the case with Victor.
Your frustration with Victor using Ne differently than you do, is palpable.

If I take out some of the controversial content that spills out onto the page,
and just look at Victor's brain, I find it extremely unique.
You just have to wave your hand in the air, to clear the smoke.
Then you can see the truth.

Here's 4 letters for you Sim: INFP.
Get used to it.

 

[simulatedworld]

Absolutely true, Sim. But I don't think that's the case with Victor.
Your frustration with Victor using Ne differently than you do, is palpable.

If I take out some of the controversial content that spills out onto the page,
and just look at Victor's brain, I find it extremely unique.
You just have to wave your hand in the air, to clear the smoke.
Then you can see the truth.

Here's 4 letters for you Sim: INFP.
Get used to it.

I find Victor pretty unique too, honestly. I told you his posts are very hit or miss for me--he always has a unique perspective, if nothing else. Sometimes it's total garbled nonsense, and sometimes it's not.

I don't think he's using Ne at all, but I suppose we'll have to disagree on that one.

Are you saying that he's INFP or that I am?

 

[matmos]

Sometimes it's total garbled nonsense, and sometimes it's not.

Is that down to you or Victor--or just one of these strange random variables that just, like, is?

When the ball's in your court, don't blame Victor if you drop the racket.

 

[simulatedworld]

Is that down to you or Victor--or just one of these strange random variables that just, like, is?

When the ball's in your court, don't blame Victor if you drop the racket.

I can't hear you; I'm too busy shitting out little INTJs.

 

[matmos]

I can't hear you; I'm too busy shitting out little INTJs.

You're so predictable. I'd thought of linking little shits and ENTPs but thought better of it.

Mainly because it's boring.

 

[simulatedworld]

You're so predictable. I'd thought of linking little shits and ENTPs but thought better of it.

Mainly because it's boring.

 

[matmos]

It took you 14 minutes to google that?

Hope you deliver pizzas quicker than that.

Very disappointing.

 

[simulatedworld]

It took you 14 minutes to google that?

Hope you deliver pizzas quicker than that.

Very disappointing.

Yep, and it looks like it took me 30 minutes to type this two-sentence response. I guess since I monitor the forum 24/7 I should be making quicker responses!

 

[Le Grande Muffin]

your knowledge OP is akin to the label on the bk of an hp sauce bottle

 

[Gerbah]

I didnt say envy the way of life, I said envy the prosperity, rejecting the way of life precludes the prosperity.

I probably still don't understand entirely what you mean, but to pick up on the envy of prosperity issue, I do think that many people in Islamic countries are very frustrated by their lack of prosperity and probably envy it. I just disagree that in each case this is necessarily to do with rejecting a secular way of life.

I also disagree that political Islamists envy prosperity. I assume by political Islamists you mean the extreme end of the Wahabi-type hardliners. I just think they are exactly the ones who are so consumed by hate for the West and their fight against it (which is very much to do with post/colonial issues) that living comfortably is a non-issue to them. And yes, I was thinking more about the Arab world because it seems more political Islamists from there see their fight as a more global thing. I think Chechnia for example is a very particular problem to Russia. Chechnia has been a problem for Russia for hundreds of years, and it wasn't even seen as very much to do with Islam originally.