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  1. #51
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Is it possible to balance Existentialism with Spirituality?
    Some passages in Hesse's Siddartha come very close to Camus' concept of the Absurd.
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

  2. #52
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avis View Post
    Some passages in Hesse's Siddartha come very close to Camus' concept of the Absurd.
    Funny you should mention Siddhartha, as I just got a second copy of it from a very close friend of mine. I have read it two times in my life and have been touched by it's cosmic words two separate times. One of the most moving pieces of literature, in my opinion.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  3. #53
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I'm suprised somebody else here knows about Gabriel Marcel.
    Is there anything by him you can recommend for a start?

    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Funny you should mention Siddhartha, as I just got a second copy of it from a very close friend of mine. I have read it two times in my life and have been touched by it's cosmic words two separate times. One of the most moving pieces of literature, in my opinion.
    Yes, I've also read it at least twice, really poetic language. (Best in the original German , maybe you should try Steppenwolf as well.)
    Camus allegedly planned to get deeper into Far-Eastern philosophy (but died in a car accident before he had the chance to do it). The connection doesn't seem too far-fetched to me.

    BTW: Yay me, 100th post
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

  4. #54
    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    ^if people are able to sort these questions out and settle, then it's because they've allowed themself to adopt and put faith in something that gives them meaning and purpose. It doesn't suggest validity in their position to the rest of the world. That's why it's discomforting to me. It's individualistic. I don't want to be left to my own devices. I want to know the truth.
    Could you expand on the bolded part? I don't understand what you mean. Do you mean that when you find meaningful answers for yourself it will inevitably mean that your answers will be unique to yourself only?

    If so, how can those answers be the truth if they don't have application to other human beings and make sense out of our history? Because every human being, on an existential level, is the same and has the same questions. The questions have always been the same. That means the correct answers must be the same as well. It doesn't mean everyone has to agree with you. Everyone has a different agenda also and finding the truth is often not on it. But as I said, I don't know if this is what you meant or not.

  5. #55
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbah View Post
    Could you expand on the bolded part? I don't understand what you mean. Do you mean that when you find meaningful answers for yourself it will inevitably mean that your answers will be unique to yourself only?
    Precisely.

    If so, how can those answers be the truth if they don't have application to other human beings and make sense out of our history? Because every human being, on an existential level, is the same and has the same questions. The questions have always been the same. That means the correct answers must be the same as well. It doesn't mean everyone has to agree with you. Everyone has a different agenda also and finding the truth is often not on it. But as I said, I don't know if this is what you meant or not.
    What I meant is that if people come to a place where they've made peace with their existence and the questions surrounding it, it's likely that they've merely settled on something that they'll accept that validates their life as meaningful - whatever religious doctrines or theories, family etc. etc. Have they found the meaning of life and the answers to our purpose? Highly unlikely. They've just settled for something and found peace in ignorance. Are those people wrong? Maybe not. Maybe that is the only meaning we can give life - to make the best of it and stay as level headed as possible in order to get the most from it - If ignorance is what it takes, that's what it takes. Again a theory just as good as any, yet nothing suggests it is the true way.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
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    Ok, I see. For what it's worth, my view is that I think it's possible to come to a point where you no longer have doubt without the cost of feeling isolated, even if you don't know everything about the truth you've recognised. I think this truth essentially links you to everything else. And I believe this kind of knowledge is infinite, and you yourself would have to be infinite to know it all, so there will always be some ignorance, but I think that you can find your place in the universe alongside all the other creation and beings and feel security when you've found out who and what you are as a human being.

  7. #57
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    Existentialism, uh, Marcel and copy cat Satre. It's that French snake oil a bunch of intellectuals co-opt'd to justify their opportunity to breathe and eat.

    I think in more modern times it's been used to bore and depress college students.
    sart, adj. Smart, but with something important missing. Generally, smart only inasmuch as not-smart, and apparently smart to those with severe vision problems. Hence the comparative "sartre" (Brit. sp.) meaning "more sart," i.e. more intelligible to exactly the extent that a thing is less intelligible.

    (from the philosophical lexicon)

    Trying to define the feature that unifies existentialist philosophies is notoriously difficult; however, the common theme that seems to unify these strands of thought is the plight of man trying to find meaning in an essentially meaningless existence. Hence the thought that you ought to imbue existence with your own meaning, because meaning won't be found outside yourself. And it is here that existentialist thought crumbles, for they all agree that man needs meaning.

    Try to ignore your need for meaning. It is existentially impossible. This is a truth that not even the existentialists can ignore, for its truth is independent from their minds, and so the meaning behind it is also independent from their minds, because meaning is more basic than truth.

    Sarte thought hell is other people. I think hell is a meaningless existence, and there is no surer way to lead a meaningless existence than to try to will meaning into being apart from, or without consideration of, the objective reality that governs the rules for the discovery of what is meaningful, and therefore the discovery of what is true.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avis View Post
    Is there anything by him you can recommend for a start?
    Pretty much anything you can get your hands on by him. I have a copy of Searchings, which is an anthology of some lectures he gave. You might want to look for his autobiography Awakenings or The Mystery of Being - that is if you can find copies of them. Best place to look is university libraries.

    Failing that, this link should be helpful:
    Gabriel (-Honor) Marcel (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

    I mentioned this elsewhere, but Marcel is the person commonly given credit for coining the term "Existentialism".

  9. #59
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    The questions plague me and it doesn't bring me to a happy/fulfilling place.

    I want answers. I need answers. I feel am nearly sure there are none and thus I see no peace for me.

    What/where are your answers?
    What do you want to know?
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  10. #60
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    The answer to the ultimate question is 42.

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