User Tag List

First 2345 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 43

  1. #31
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I do like postmodernism, though...

    And I don't think a trite statement like "blah, blah untrue, you object for sake of objection" is a very good reason for me not to like it.


    For instance, you could tell me what the alternatives are.



    So of course I like it.
    Older modes of intelligence do not require blind faith in what you believe. That is entirely up to the individual learning and the individual teaching.

    If anything, our current/future systems bombard us with trivial information with unyielding zeal. If you live in a city, you cannot find refuge.

    The war escalates in the streets, on TV, and even on the net. It infests the corners for the sake of corporate enterprise and economic integration.

    Would you rather use a tangible dictionary, or an online dictionary that spews advertisements, pop-ups, and faceted bits of irrelevancies? This is one difference between pre-modernism and post-modernism.

  2. #32
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    Skepticism is good, but building societies and belief systems on skepticism and nihilism will lead to total chaos, destroying its own fundaments. It is only sustainable by the elite, so it's kind of an elitist worldview. It fails to grasp the social necessity of moving towards a "grand narrative", while constantly emphasizing that it doesn't exist (how do you know? even then, who cares?). I could go on forever.
    I just can't find it in me to accept any "grand narratives" without decontructing them and making ironic comments about them. I just... don't know how to do it. I don't feel it.

    I wish I could be an elitist. I don't like dealing with people who strongly believe in some kind of narrative, because their way of thinking about things is too simplistic for me to feel as though their words have any meaning.
    Alternative: integrating the rationality and the anthropological optimism of the Enlightenment with the sentimentality and surreality of romanticism into the experiences and the skepticism of modernity, creating a new worldview.
    But can those things be integrated? And I honestly hate romanticism... though I do like the Enlightenment and modernity.

  3. #33
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,787

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I just can't find it in me to accept any "grand narratives" without decontructing them and making ironic comments about them.
    There has to be room for non-mainstream material and subcultures in every system. Problem is if skepticism and detachment becomes a role model for intellectuals, and if the praise of entropy overrides civilization. The entropy may grow outside of a system, but it has to be constant inside for us to allow to challenge the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I don't like dealing with people who strongly believe in some kind of narrative, because their way of thinking about things is too simplistic for me to feel as though their words have any meaning.
    A worldview that is complex enough more or less incorporates the opposition. Your standpoint is also a response to its core values, so if it is supported by a vast majority, your rejection is reconed with. Negations are also affirmations in a way, which can be integrated.

    Once again: problem is if disorder overwhelmes order.
    Order is able to control chaos, but if chaos takes over, it can't control anything, including itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    But can those things be integrated? And I honestly hate romanticism... though I do like the Enlightenment and modernity.
    I definitely hope so. Our means to convince people are stronger than ever before, e.g. mass media. I believe that rationality and feelings, global and local, western and eastern thinking is all part of a whole, and disregarding this because of it's complexity or the difficulty of its comprehension is not beneficial.

    To be a little more specific: everything is easier to take in when individuals are bound together for a reason. Humanity needs yet another "great goal" to coalesce, a positive one (I'm thinking of space exploration, which had great effects on culture and technology in the 60's and 70's).

  4. #34
    Senior Member sofmarhof's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    327

    Default

    I've heard House of Leaves described as very, very postmodern--if that is true, it is the one postmodern anything I ever liked.

  5. #35
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post

    To be a little more specific: everything is easier to take in when individuals are bound together for a reason. Humanity needs yet another "great goal" to coalesce, a positive one (I'm thinking of space exploration, which had great effects on culture and technology in the 60's and 70's).
    Yes! Though cooperation between parties is not necessarily vital. Iron sharpens iron.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    468 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    It killed my favorite contemporary author, David Foster Wallace. He thought about it so much he lost his mind and hanged himself. If I think about it too long, I have the same impulse. Once you achieve that mindset, you're sunk. There's no going back and there's no going forward.

  7. #37
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    -1w sp/sx
    Socionics
    IOU Ni
    Posts
    1,028

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    Skepticism is good, but building societies and belief systems on skepticism and nihilism will lead to total chaos, destroying its own fundaments. It is only sustainable by the elite, so it's kind of an elitist worldview. It fails to grasp the social necessity of moving towards a "grand narrative", while constantly emphasizing that it doesn't exist (how do you know? even then, who cares?). I could go on forever.

    Alternative: integrating the rationality and the anthropological optimism of the Enlightenment with the sentimentality and surreality of romanticism into the experiences and the skepticism of modernity, creating a new worldview.
    It's not about abandoning 'grand narratives', it's about contextualizing them.
    And I don't see why it should be called elitist.
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

  8. #38
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    6,047

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Postmodernism addresses some of the deficiencies of Modernism by coming up with something much worse.
    Well said.

    Postmodernism is contradictory and abandons reason. It attempts to define meaning as the lack of meaning, and states that the only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

    Oh lookie at the colorful, cuddly, and hip nihilism!

  9. #39
    The Architect Alwar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    922

    Default

    I suspected that someone had to have come up with a post-modern essay generator, and sure enough someone did, and 13 years ago at that. It's much funnier than chomskybot I think.

  10. #40
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    -1w sp/sx
    Socionics
    IOU Ni
    Posts
    1,028

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    Well said.

    Postmodernism is contradictory and abandons reason. It attempts to define meaning as the lack of meaning, and states that the only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
    Not quite
    It's not about abandoning reason. It's simply about seeing its limits and recognizing that reason alone sometimes just doesn't cut it.

    The lack of meaning as the new meaning? Not quite. As I've said before, it's about contextualizing (maybe this explains it better; I'm sorry that it's quite a long read) . Nothing has meaning in and of itself, but only gains it via interpretation (and I think that's quite obvious).

    Regarding your last assumption: "There is no Truth, only truths." That captures it quite well. It doesn't state that nothing is certain at all - it's simply a principled scepticism towards metaphysical explanations of the world. A decisive "I couldn't tell."

    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    Well said.Oh lookie at the colorful, cuddly,
    Look at my picture. I'm not cuddly and only consist of greyscales.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    and hip nihilism!
    I'm not nihilistic. Never. No way.
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

Similar Threads

  1. Postmodernism and Marxism w/Jordan Peterson
    By SpankyMcFly in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 72
    Last Post: 10-08-2017, 08:59 AM
  2. Postmodern art
    By Kas in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 06-13-2015, 07:55 PM
  3. The End of Postmodernism?
    By ygolo in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 67
    Last Post: 04-07-2013, 06:33 PM
  4. The Emerging Church - Thoughts on Postmodern Christianity
    By Apollonian in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 10-07-2007, 09:23 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO