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  1. #11
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    What makes you think China is a meritocracy?
    It probably has some nepotism as well, as does any place in time...
    But chinese students perform tests deciding what they are going to be later in life.
    There is ruthless competition for the top jobs, and grades decide if they qualify or not.
    Of course things like talent and charm plays in, but it's still essentially meritocratic more than aristocratic, nepotistic or such.

    I am sure that kids of rich parents probably have access to better education.
    Is this the case?

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  2. #12
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    All I've got to say is, "so"?

    There are so many reasons why authoritarian rule would not work:
    1. Too many groups so opposing that the current government is barely enough to sate their needs
    2. No basis in anything that inspires unity. Sure, there's Christianity, but again, forcing that on people is considered a huge no-no by some of the groups above
    3. Too many weapons have been distributed already to people who are not afraid to use them

    If anything, fracture and anarchy are more likely than anything resembling China.
    I'm not saying you can even change. That's actually the very core of the problem.
    Essentially, you have already lost the game.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  3. #13
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    I'm not saying you can even change. That's actually the very core of the problem.
    Essentially, you have already lost the game.
    There's a game to lose?

    Then again, I've seen the theory that China and the US have already locked each other into a death spiral, haha.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  4. #14
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    It probably has some nepotism as well, as does any place in time...
    But chinese students perform tests deciding what they are going to be later in life.
    There is ruthless competition for the top jobs, and grades decide if they qualify or not.
    Of course things like talent and charm plays in, but it's still essentially meritocratic more than aristocratic, nepotistic or such.

    I am sure that kids of rich parents probably have access to better education.
    Is this the case?

    Tests don't evaluate your performance. It only drills your ability to conform and obey.

    As for ruthless competition for top jobs, alot of it depends on cronyism and luck. Who you know is more important than your actual ability. If you know someone influencial and is well connected, you more likely to get promoted and succeed than someone doesn't.

    I'd say the chinese system is not a lot better than americans in selecting the cream of the crop the rule.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  5. #15
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    Shouldn't this thread be in politics history and current events?

  6. #16
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    Also, China's jumped the shark.

    They haven't really planned well for long term growth.

    EDIT: so have we, but we will come out of the current times ahead of them I think.

  7. #17
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  8. #18
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    “Men will lie on their backs, talking about the fall of man, and never make an effort to get up” ~ Henry David Thoreau

  9. #19
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Also, China's jumped the shark.

    They haven't really planned well for long term growth.

    EDIT: so have we, but we will come out of the current times ahead of them I think.
    I concur.

    If anything, they are going to poison themselves.

    Although the U.S. growth was for the most part not well planned (thin urban sprawl, lack of conservation efforts in the overall consumption of resources, etc.) technology was relatively simple when we did boom post WWII. Now, China has the luxury of better than ever building materials, heavy equipment, computer aided design, and the history of the world's experts to hir at their will if they need to and choose to do so. They paid alot for foreign architecture services in the 90's if I'm not mistaken.

    Basically I am equivocating their growth to that of a cancerous tumor. Yes, the cells divide quickly, and the mass becomes large, but that is because it is "dirty growth" and will kill the organism it is in eventually because of the complete lack of balance.

    Their strength is their weakness. Like Russia (now well endowed with petroleum) China doesn't care about (1) the environment, or (2) human rights. Sure, they can grow as fast as they need to and screw everyone over in the process, but that type of growth is unsustainable in the long run.

    Finally, I think it funny that Haphazard Modern Nomad noted lawyers and accountants as a source of great evil with regard to acquiring venture capital. They are the bullies on the school bus, the one's who are choosing to go rogue. You want to know the big mean gorilla on the block?

    INSURANCE COMPANIES and BANKS.

    They have been sodomoizing American businesses on one end, and the workers on the other end. They charge what they want, they are allowed to practive grossly inefficient business practices via protectionsit legislation, and they are crippling the middle class and small business owners (the backbones of this great nation) with their gouging on workers' compensation insurance and high cost (average quality) health care. Getting rid of their BS will save you much more overall economic inefficiency than spanking the accountants and lawyers.

    Finally, let's face it, alot of Americans are lazy and don't have transferable job skills sufficient to keep up with the world economy. We are used to pulling a lever in a factory and getting $60 an hour for it, and those jobs are now gone because there are plenty of greedy third world nations that allow their people to do the same work for $2 per day. Both are extremems, a sustainable reality is between thsoe two poles, but the bottom line is that (1) jobs must remain here if AMericans are going to remain working, and (2) Companies can't have competitive labor costs if they are being gouged on core fixed expenses of operation such as labor and W.C. insurance, offering of health insurance, etc. Pensions are already gone, let's not totally screw up and lose all the jobs too. Globalization is pure evil, I'm sure of it.
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  10. #20
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    the innovation infrastructure needs to be fixed.

    The small tech business dream, to become the next cisco or microsoft is much harder now than it was 10 years ago.

    Its harder to get an IPO because of much higher legal cost

    Its harder to attract employees because you can't issue options as a start up as much.

    Both make it harder to draw the best engineers, marketers, sales people, etc... from the corners of the US and the globe to make a viable product.

    The US has an awesome innovation infrastructure thats been polluted by a layer of unsightly rust sabotage. Clear away the rust, and you still have the gold layer below. Only a big picture planner can fix this. This type of problem needs a direct top down approach to clear the rust. But the innovation can't be harmed because it needs its freedom.

    The US still leads the world in innovation and research. Just clear away the legal and accounting cobwebs and rust Obama! Youre gonna have to stab your lawyer friends in the back who make money with the IPO rust costs, but its going to set the rest of the entrepreneurial small business community free. Give the yankee ingenuity its freedom again from legal and options expensing beauracracy, and the US will grow again for sure.

    Come on, isn't ANYONE on Obama's advisor staff reading this??!!?!?! Where are they when you need them? bleh.

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