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  1. #21
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    I think Darwin accurately described the survival mechanisms and process for species/populations, but his theories do not solve the question of evolution, the progressive change from one species to another (or RAPID change if you follow some other theories that do not involve natural selection as the prime force of evolutionary leaps).

  2. #22
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I think you may be misinterpreting Peguy. I think he fully believes in evolution. He's merely saying that ID has legitimacy beyond and despite the fact that it has been co-opted by fundamentalists in an effort to force religion into schools. It's an interesting philosophy, and one that I've always found to have merit. It's a shame that it's been sullied by its association with extremists, because now rational thinking people feel compelled to dismiss it out of hand.
    +1 Thank you. No I don't reject evolution, what I do reject are atheistic interpretations of evolution as some kind of evidence against God's existence and for a cosmos governed by chaos. Most religious denominations favor the concept of "Theistic evolution", which actually is harshly criticised by the likes of Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris.

    I probably should note that many early religious criticisms of Darwin were actually based on the scientific data and theories of the time. So again, it's not an issue of science vs. religion.

  3. #23
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    +1 Thank you.
    What are you "+1 Thank you"-ing? The misinterpretation of my question to you?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    What are you "+1 Thank you"-ing? The misinterpretation of my question to you?
    EffEmDoubleyou didn't misintrept you in the manner you presented the question. Especially trying to point to JPII's position on evolution(which was already addressed in the excerpt I posted).

  5. #25
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I think you may be misinterpreting Peguy. I think he fully believes in evolution. He's merely saying that ID has legitimacy beyond and despite the fact that it has been co-opted by fundamentalists in an effort to force religion into schools. It's an interesting philosophy, and one that I've always found to have merit. It's a shame that it's been sullied by its association with extremists, because now rational thinking people feel compelled to dismiss it out of hand.
    I don't think ID is a lousy idea, I think it's intriguing.

    But it's not science.
    You can't falsify it.

    The whole premise is that the universe is organized in such a way that an intelligent creator must have been involved.

    That might be interesting inductive reasoning, but it's not deductive.

    ...and yes, I wish the religious folks would get out of it and stop using ID for their own ends. Then again, the very guys who put together the term Intelligent Design and are heavily promoting it are all Christian evangelicals. The term was created as a subversive brand to Trojan Horse someone's religious values into the public mind and secular school system. If these guys had not conceived, packaged, and marketed this term and set of ideas about the world, we wouldn't even be having this discussion right now... so I have trouble separating the term from the framework it represents. ID *is* religious in concept just from mere origin.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #26
    Junior Member DigitalStreetfighter's Avatar
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    Science and religion will always be at odds. Science is based on establishing facts and providing truths. Religion is based on faith...something that by definition cannot be proved.

    No-one will be able to prove intelligent design is truth.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    What are you "+1 Thank you"-ing? The misinterpretation of my question to you?
    Don't get your jock strap in a bunch.

  8. #28
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Don't get your jock strap in a bunch.
    Oh, Risen!

    No, it's an honest question. I don't want Peguy to think I was taking a swing at him.

  9. #29
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    EffEmDoubleyou didn't misintrept you in the manner you presented the question. Especially trying to point to JPII's position on evolution(which was already addressed in the excerpt I posted).
    Incorrect.

    I began the query by asking for your personal input, then mentioned a famous papal stance. From there, I summarized how this might influence the Catholic everyman.

    Not sure how you misunderstood this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    So, what are your thoughts, Peguy?

    The Catholic church, when under the wisdom of Pope John Paul II, embraced evolution as "more than mere hypothesis" in 1996.

    How this applies to the layman remain to be seen; yet, papal identity has accepted evolution - and not Creationism - as the relevant architecture for our biological heritage.

  10. #30
    Sniffles
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    Ok Night, I must've misunderstood you. I thought you were addressing me as if I was advancing a Creationist position.

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