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  1. #11
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Ignostic agnostic.


    I believe in myself and in my power to change things, provided I'm not feeling like procrastinating.

  2. #12
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    I thought you were better than that, Night. I want you to know that I'm disappointed in you. I can't believe you went back to that religion. You really don't care how unreasonable those people are.

    Anyway, the reason I don't believe in "God," is because I find it too limiting a concept for my idea of a supreme being. I'm agnostic, and what I essentially believe is that many religions are based on people who saw this Supreme Being, and it tried to communicate with them, but had to wear different masks and manifest in slightly different ways in order to communicate with all of them. Also, the message has likely been distorted over time with language, creating further drift and people translating it based on assumptions that fit with their present norms. If you look carefully at any religion, you'll notice that there's a distinct parellel between that religion, and the cultures it came from and passed through during its evolution.

    So, what I essentially believe is that the common threads you see in religions are far more important than the details people quibble over. They all seem to agree that there's a force that created the universe, and rewards altruistic and good behavior, and that there's an afterlife. There also seems to be idea that asceticism and self-discipline is a higher road than materialism and self-indulgence (though there's disagreement on whether materialism and self-indulgence are actually evil or wrong). These threads appear in several religions, and I doubt it it's a coincidence.

    My attitude is essentially this... if you can only see the truth in one perspective on something that is supposedly infinite, you have a very small mind.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Drezoryx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Do you?

    Tell me why you believe. Or, conversely, why you choose to disbelieve.

    tell me: What do you believe?
    Brought up on Eastern philosophy, started exploring other faiths and atheism, then went back to it. currently exploring different schools within eastern philosophy.

    I feel the basic reason of adopting atheism for me was awe of complexity of everything, it couldn't be explained as easily with religion or even science. Eventually i figured you don't need to know everything to formulate a comforting life philosophy, non dogmatic one at that, amenable to change, a little dynamic but with a fair foundation.

    Non believing for me was like a void which needed to be fed from my own energy, it saps you. a philosophy which comforts you even if its your own and provides you with energy and doesn't let you fall down is pretty good and very necessary too for a successful 'material' life

    why eastern? eastern philosophy is head to head with latest in science and at places science is still catching up. this ensures minimum conflict in beliefs. it is comprehensive and well developed, a complete lifestyle.

    also it's better to believe in *some* philosophy otherwise its like amputating a good limb. Its free hapiness who doesnt like a paycheck without work or insurance without premiums.
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  4. #14
    Twerking & Lurking ayoitsStepho's Avatar
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    I'm a born again christian. Not catholic, but baptist.
    I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God and came to earth to die for our sins.
    In that, I also believe that you cannot get to heaven through works, but by Jesus alone. He judges our hearts, not our actions. Thats pretty much the base of what I believe.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

  5. #15
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayoitsStepho View Post
    I'm a born again christian. Not catholic, but baptist.
    I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God and came to earth to die for our sins.
    In that, I also believe that you cannot get to heaven through works, but by Jesus alone. He judges our hearts, not our actions. Thats pretty much the base of what I believe.
    That explains a lot.

    Sorry I got so mad at you earlier. If I'd known you were one of those, I wouldn't have blamed you for your perspective.

  6. #16
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Religious experiences can be fMRIed and witnessed electronically. Faith by definition is unfalsifiable. One has a difficult time taking the Bible literally and negotiating reality with our present day epistemology.

    I've come to believe that none of these are grounds for rejecting the meaning-making box of religion. I've also come to terms with a major issue reagarding the "is there a God?" question: my premise is my conclusion. I begin with the end in mind. This is the way of being for a religious person. Though my brain has issues with these things, my entire being does not have any problem holding things in tension. It's a part of Life by the way that I understand it, and that's actually cool.

    I'm developing into this way of life more and more each day (with both successes and failures--development need not always be positive).

    I also recognize the need to make sure I invest in my spiritual and emotional and soulful and physical self as much as I do my intellectual self; otherwise I run into problems.

    I rely on my acoustic guitar and some alone time with God to keep my faith.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  7. #17
    Twerking & Lurking ayoitsStepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    That explains a lot.

    Sorry I got so mad at you earlier. If I'd known you were one of those, I wouldn't have blamed you for your perspective.
    Well its ok, I didnt take it personally. I just prefer to keep my faith and such out of certain discussions because not everyone believes that way and it adds more mess. But I have no hard feelings
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

  8. #18
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I thought you were better than that, Night. I want you to know that I'm disappointed in you. I can't believe you went back to that religion. You really don't care how unreasonable those people are.

    Anyway, the reason I don't believe in "God," is because I find it too limiting a concept for my idea of a supreme being. I'm agnostic, and what I essentially believe is that many religions are based on people who saw this Supreme Being, and it tried to communicate with them, but had to wear different masks and manifest in slightly different ways in order to communicate with all of them. Also, the message has likely been distorted over time with language, creating further drift and people translating it based on assumptions that fit with their present norms. If you look carefully at any religion, you'll notice that there's a distinct parellel between that religion, and the cultures it came from and passed through during its evolution.

    So, what I essentially believe is that the common threads you see in religions are far more important than the details people quibble over. They all seem to agree that there's a force that created the universe, and rewards altruistic and good behavior, and that there's an afterlife. There also seems to be idea that asceticism and self-discipline is a higher road than materialism and self-indulgence (though there's disagreement on whether materialism and self-indulgence are actually evil or wrong). These threads appear in several religions, and I doubt it it's a coincidence.

    My attitude is essentially this... if you can only see the truth in one perspective on something that is supposedly infinite, you have a very small mind.
    Weren't you making hugely erroneous claims about what Christianity actually was just a few months ago? Don't you believe you lack sufficient understanding of what it is you're judging?

    Also, regarding your last point: if you can't allow for the possibility of God then you have a very small mind (to use your claims ). No Christian knows they're right; Night and myself and others all know we're taking a leap of faith. We looked up the definition of faith in the dictionary and we read it in our Bibles. We also engage our critical thinking skills and we also can see from countless perspectives.

    Why do you only believe in the postmodern perspective of multiple perspectives and no absolute truth? That's awfully limiting, hey? What about all of the other possible epistemologies out there? Seems to me like you're a slave to the episteme of your times in the same way we're slaves to the religion of times past.

    The worldviews themselves are not invalid; there's valid or invalid reasons for the worldviews.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  9. #19
    Senior Member Drezoryx's Avatar
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    ^usehername well said, i would have said pretty much the same to the quoted poster and more but this thread would quickly degenerate in cross accusations and counter arguments.

    In general, believers and non believers can be equally neurotic/fanatic/egoistic, its not only about reasons you believe in something or disbelieve but also the level of accommodation of the other viewpoints and flexibility in your own ideas. Thats maturity.
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  10. #20
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Why do you only believe in the postmodern perspective of multiple perspectives and no absolute truth? That's awfully limiting, hey? What about all of the other possible epistemologies out there? Seems to me like you're a slave to the episteme of your times in the same way we're slaves to the religion of times past.
    That's precisely the point. The religion needs to fit the culture and evolve with people and the times, not the other way around. The cultural development shouldn't be force-fitted to remain bound to the religion.

    The culture we now live in makes far more sense from the postmodern perspective than the Christian one. If I lived in medieval times or later Roman times, I would have been a Christian, because that world would have made more sense from a Christian perspective. If I lived in Greek times, I probably would have worshipped their gods.

    I choose the perspective that makes the most sense of what's going on.

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