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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    Nietzsche's ideas arent exaclty systematic. I think i pretty much agree with you. The communists, socialists would fall into slave morality, because they function like other slave morality systems do. A master morality religion would be like the Roman religion/empire where might pretty much made right at all levels of society (including their religious stories).
    Well, Rome was a Republic. But exactly what is meant by a "master" system?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaybeLogic View Post
    I would agree that most people have a psychological need that seems to be filled by religion. I have seen that same need filled by any number of things. I don't think it's a need to have a higher authority to protect them, as you seem be inferring with your Religion vs. State proposition.
    It could be any person, place, thing or idea to which an individual could apply his "passion". I know a handful of people who belong to the Church of American Football and a few others who belong to the Church of Cheesecake and those churches seem to fill their needs as well as any political or religious system could. It might actually be a bit more realistic to worship something that can be tasted, something that can be proven with a high degree of certainty.
    I still think people TEND to appeal to authority figures/idols. When people fill the need I described previously with science, they look up to scientists as being smarter and more capable than themselves and rely on them to lead the way. Primitive tribes do the same with their leaders. Communists/fascists do it with their political dictators. Religious people do it with their deities. It's a very similar pattern of behavior. Especially as a collective, we always tend to erect leaders/an authority. It's how we naturally create order. This plays out in small group dynamics and in entire societies. This is why I've always supported religion for societies (despite not being religious myself) because at least it lends itself to worshiping something rather harmless as oppose to individuals or a system which does not have their best interests in mind, due to the nature of people and such power. But the unfortunate fact is that religion can be used in the same way as the others to control people, but that largely depends on people slipping and holding too much reverence for human leaders, allowing them to do things that'd otherwise conflict with their own religious dogma. Folly is the human way.

  2. #22
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Well, Rome was a Republic. But exactly what is meant by a "master" system?
    --If im strong enough, i do/get/win/enforce it
    --"If exercising my will encroaches on others, so what? its not my fault they are weak."

  3. #23
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    However "might makes right" is a rather unstable foundation for any major social philosophy. Rousseau dealt with this in the Social Contract.

  4. #24
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    However "might makes right" is a rather unstable foundation for any major social philosophy. Rousseau dealt with this in the Social Contract.
    ya. in general I wouldnt argue against that...

    its one of the reasons that it really only works as a personal philosophy (that along with biologically/or_whatever_you_believe ingrained feelings of guilt that would torment you for trouncing the weak for personal gain)

  5. #25
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    I don't know if even works as a personal philosophy. It fits into what Kierkegaard termed Despair to be oneself:

    "With the help of this infinite form, the self in despair wants to be master of itself or to create itself, to make his self into the self he wants to be, to determine what he will have or not have in his concrete self."

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