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  1. #1
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    Default Esoteric vs. Exoteric: What of the Ancient Mysteries in regard to Christianity?

    Atheists need not answer.

    Lately, I have been having a problem. I have had a renewed interest in religion and Christianity in particular. I have read several books explaining and defending the faith by intellectual authors. They present Christianity in a new, more truthful light than what I had been prejudiced to believe. I was beginning to feel a renewed sense of hope as I began to explore the bible, in particular the Gospels. Then I remembered something. Before finding this new interest in the faith I had been learning about the opposite of these beliefs... The path of the occult, the Ancient Mysteries. I will assume here that you are not familiar with this entirely, and will try to elucidate this subject to the best of my ability. I am not talking of New Age philosophy.

    Secret Teachings of All Ages Index

    (read the last two chapters for a brief overview, the ones referring the Christianity for a general overview of "Mystic Christianity")

    That link is pretty much the definitive modern book about these teachings. The whole history of these schools has obviously been shrouded in secrecy. The reason they give is because most humans are not capable of understanding these mysteries. Only if you had the caliber of mind of Plato and Pythagoras could you ever hope to pass the stages of being an initiate. Even to be an initiate you had to be the best of your generation in all aspects. It is generally accepted that only one or two a generation will become adepts (the last step) in their life time. Most who are initiated into these schools spend their lives studying and committed to the dissolution of the ego. Their ultimate goal is to reach complete separation of mind (godly) and body(animal). They believe immortality of the soul (breaking the living and dying cycle of reincarnation) is achieved through the Self. By learning the mysteries their minds ascend to the level of gods making them immortal. They believe the majority of humanity are stupid and incapable of elevating their consciousness. They believe that it will take most many, many life times to evolve to the state of immortality of the soul. The end of days is presumed to be when all have evolved to this state.

    When I really thought about this idea of the Mystery Schools it sounded Luciferian to me (though the majority do not mention Lucifer in any way). The venerate the snake/dragon as a symbol of knowledge/ endless cycle.

    Gnosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Theosophy symbol (I guess kind of a modern-day Mystery School):



    They worship knowledge as a means to become God/gods. What bothers me about this is that many of the greatest minds of humanity have been initiates to these schools. What if this the truth? I could possibly agree with their view that most people are incapable of having a profound view of the Divine. Manly P. Hall also claims that all religious schools have an esoteric portion, including Christianity (What of the Gnostic Gospels?).

    These give a good overview of it :

    Exoteric & Esoteric Christianity Comparison

    Esoteric Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The views of esoteric Christianity go completely against the exoteric views.

    The modern day Mystic Christians are the Rosicrucians.

    The Essenes were said to be mystic Jews and some even go as far to claim Mary and Joseph were Essenses and that immaculate conception really means that Jesus was conceived by two people whose egos are purified (all this information can be book in the sacred-texts link about Mystic Christianity).

    What about the book a revelation? Gnostics say it is what written by initiates into the mysteries :

    The Book of Revelation

    Where does all this esoteric information come from? How can one know if it is valid? Where these people really enlightened? Does everything truly have esoteric meaning...if not why do they create such elaborate and obscure subjects?

    This is very distressing. I do not know what is true. I was hoping Peguy and others with knowledge about Christianity or those having an understanding of esoteric teachings could give me some insight.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyx View Post
    This is very distressing. I do not know what is true. I was hoping Peguy and others with knowledge about Christianity or those having an understanding of esoteric teachings could give me some insight.
    Yeah sure, when I get a chance.

  3. #3
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    Personally I find the ancient mysteries just as dodge as everything else but I love to speculate. I know this might be a bit off topic but I found this urban myth the other day about a Toltec Jesus Figure and got me wondering.

    Toltec "Jesus" Figure
    The parallels with the Jesus story in the Christian myth are remarkable. While not put to death by soldiers from a ruling empire, Huemac is driven to his death by an invasion. And like Jesus, his death signals the end of his mortal kingship. Also like Jesus, Huemac and his father, Topiltzin, are associated in the myth with the people and exist as mortals.

    Both Jesus and Quetzalcoatl appear in mythology as if they really existed, although there is no proof to be found that they were real persons.

    It is interesting that the spirit of Huemac becomes Venus, the Morning Star. This is the very name of Lucifer awarded in the Old Testament to the so-called fallen angel that the Christians believe is now ruling the Earth under the name Satan.

    As one writer expressed it: “Quetzalcoatl is to the New World what Christ is to Europe: the center of a religious cosmology and pre-eminent symbol of the civilized nations of Mesoamerica. Both men were considered to be men who ascended into heaven upon their death; Christ to sit at the right hand of God, Quetzalcoatl to become the Morning Star.

    “Both were tempted by evil powers; Christ by Satan, Quetzalcoatl by the wizard-god Tezcatlipoca. And both were prophesied to one day return to earth, Christ as the Prince of the Kingdom of Heaven, Quetzalcoatl as a god-king returned to claim his kingdom in Central Mexico.”

    Even though these two civilizations existed at opposite ends of the Earth, and at about the same time in history, the same basic story has evolved in local mythology. Like a contemporary movie script, the plot is the same, but the characters and their interaction are altered.
    We should, however, exercise caution as we correlate Jesus Christ and Quetzalcoatl as identical personages because of the fact that a 10th?Century culture hero called Ce Acatl Topiltzin Quetzalcoatl took upon himself the title of the deity Quetzalcoatl. Nevertheless, the deity Quetzalcoatl apparently had its origin in the visit of Jesus Christ to the American continent.

    Similarities of Christ and Quetzalcoatl include the following:
    1. Both Christ and Quetzalcoatl were recognized as creator of all things. (Mosiah 4:2; Saenz 1962:19, 40)
    2. Both Christ and Quetzalcoatl were born of virgins. (Alma 7: 10; Gamiz 95)
    3. Both Christ and Quetzalcoatl are described as being white or as wearing a white robe. (3 Nephi 11:8; Torquemada 47)
    4. Both Christ and Quetzalcoatl performed miracles. (3 Nephi 26:15; Sejourne 136?137)
    5. Both Christ and Quetzalcoatl taught the ordinance of baptism. (3 Nephi 11:23; Irwin 1963:170)
    6. Both Christ and Quetzalcoatl prophesied of future events. (Ixtlilxochitl: 40)
    7. Both Christ and Quetzalcoatl were universal as opposed to just being recognized as local gods. (3 Nephi 16: 1; Sejourne 1962)
    8. A great destruction was associated with both Christ and Quetzalcoatl at exactly the same time period in history. (3 Nephi 8:5; Ixtlilxochitl: 40)
    9. The cross was a symbol to both Christ and Quetzalcoatl. (3 Nephi 27:14; Irwin 1963:165)
    10. Both Christ and Quetzalcoatl sent out disciples to preach their word. (3 Nephi 12:1; Wirth 1978:55)
    11. Both Christ and Quetzalcoatl promised they would come a second time. (2 Nephi 6:14; Sahagun 1:40)
    12. A new star is associated with both Christ and Quetzalcoatl. (3 Nephi 1:21; Anales de Cuauhtitlan 7)
    13. The children of both Christ and Quetzalcoatl will become lords and heirs of the earth. (4 Nephi 1: 17; Ixtlilxochitl: 40)
    Numbers 21:8,9. The Lord said to Moses, "Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live."
    John 3:14-16 "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
    So here the Bible compares Jesus to that bronze serpent on that pole. That's unique, isn't it. Was this serpent a symbol of Christ?


    Jesus as a serpent-god from bas-relief in Egypt. This drawing was made by a member of Napoleon's army in 1798, one hundred years before the same face appeared to the world ’for the first time ever' on the photograph of the Shroud of Turin.

    Lets see

    Compares with The Shroud of Turin

    And am wondering was the Jesus story borrowed from an earlier religion? Was Jesus a Serpent, how do you know he wasn't? I know probably a bit far fetched but still, amused.

  4. #4
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    There is also a lot of talk among many radical groups Christians (seventh day adventists, mormons, and some catholics) that the Roman Catholic Church is a conspiracy. I found this video interesting: [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1NdVL74LEQ"]The Secret Behind Secret Societies[/YOUTUBE]

    I have done a fair amount of research into occult/esoteric things and everything he says checks out. This is quite disturbing.

    What is the truth of Christianity?

    I don't know why more people are not interested/concerned about this... believer or not, Christianity has shaped much of the last 2,000 years. A thorough study of world history must include this because it is unimaginably widespread (1/3 of the world is Christian!). But why?

  5. #5
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    Wow I think this discussion is already getting ahead of itself.

  6. #6
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    Honestly Christianity is actually pretty diverse. Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, Pentocostal and the others are really not the same. Similar, but no. Actually, the only truth I can speak of, is the truth of Jesus Christ and what is in the bible.
    I promice I'm not trying to convert to you
    I suppose I look it at it this way, If Jesus wasn't the true God like He claimed to be, then why do people hate him so much? Why are people so disgusted with the thought of Jesus? People take his name in vain...but why not do that to Buddah? Or Muhamid? Or other 'spritual' leaders?
    You don't hear people "Buddah damn you!!" or anything like that. Does anyone find that weird? I mean, when I've spoken to people about Jesus Christ, its like people will do anything to shut you up...but if you talk about other religions gods, we have to be 'tolerant' or 'open minded'.
    Here's another thing. Alot of people will tell you that Jesus was just a good teacher, a wonderful prophet. But from what the bible tells us, Jesus could only be 3 things from what he talked about. He CLAIMED to be God in the flesh. He CLAIMED he was the Messiah. These are pretty drastic comments to make. Really he could only be 1 of the following.
    -Crazy
    -Satain
    -Or he's who he claims to be.
    If you lived in the time Jesus was around, from the statements he made that were so controversal, would you say he was a good teacher?

    I appologize that this probably had nothing to do with your questions and thoughts...I just suppose I thought I'd put that out there. It's really something to think about.

    But good luck in your quest to the truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
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  7. #7
    Twerking & Lurking ayoitsStepho's Avatar
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    Ohhhh, one more thing from what you asked about Jesus being a serpaint and such.

    Numbers 21:8,9. The Lord said to Moses, "Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live."
    John 3:14-16 "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
    Those versus are showing us what will happen in the future in the bible. Foreshadowing.
    When the Lord told moses to put the snake on a pole and lift it to the sky so all the people coulds see and be healed, God was foreshadowing Christs death.
    When Jesus was crusified, he was lifted into the sky on the cross and all who looked to him and believed where forgiven of their sins, they're fate was sealed with Jesus Christ. They'll have eternal life in heaven.
    Its not saying that Jesus was a serpaint or anything like that, its just a foreshadow of Christs death.

    I can help with any specific questions you have with Christianity. Um but I cannot read the things about any new age type of things or anything that dwells in new age philosephy [im not sure if those were the links you were giving out.]. It's a personal reasoning behind that I do not allow myself to, but if you have questions about anything else I can try to help. I'm not a huge buff in all of it, but I know Christianity
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Wow I think this discussion is already getting ahead of itself.
    As in going in the wrong/loony direction or hitting on truth/something significant?

    Quote Originally Posted by ayoitsStepho View Post
    Honestly Christianity is actually pretty diverse. Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, Pentocostal and the others are really not the same. Similar, but no. Actually, the only truth I can speak of, is the truth of Jesus Christ and what is in the bible.
    I promice I'm not trying to convert to you
    I suppose I look it at it this way, If Jesus wasn't the true God like He claimed to be, then why do people hate him so much? Why are people so disgusted with the thought of Jesus? People take his name in vain...but why not do that to Buddah? Or Muhamid? Or other 'spritual' leaders?
    You don't hear people "Buddah damn you!!" or anything like that. Does anyone find that weird? I mean, when I've spoken to people about Jesus Christ, its like people will do anything to shut you up...but if you talk about other religions gods, we have to be 'tolerant' or 'open minded'.
    Here's another thing. Alot of people will tell you that Jesus was just a good teacher, a wonderful prophet. But from what the bible tells us, Jesus could only be 3 things from what he talked about. He CLAIMED to be God in the flesh. He CLAIMED he was the Messiah. These are pretty drastic comments to make. Really he could only be 1 of the following.
    -Crazy
    -Satain
    -Or he's who he claims to be.
    If you lived in the time Jesus was around, from the statements he made that were so controversal, would you say he was a good teacher?

    I appologize that this probably had nothing to do with your questions and thoughts...I just suppose I thought I'd put that out there. It's really something to think about.

    But good luck in your quest to the truth.
    I don't mind at all that it's off topic. I like the direction this thread is going in and I'm waiting to see if anyone else can add anything. I really thing this is such an important topic. Christianity's influence permeates almost everything.

    Aah, yes I am familiar with the "trilemma" popularized by Christian apologist C.S. Lewis. I think Lewis is good for general, basic apologetics, but more extensive, deeper apologetics are needed for a better defense of faith. Jesus as Liar, Lunatic, or Lord...
    The premises are as follows.

    (P): Jesus claimed to be God.

    (Q): One of the following must be true.

    1. Lunatic: Jesus was not God, but believed that he was.
    2. Liar: Jesus did not believe he was God, but spoke as if he did.
    3. Lord: Jesus is God.

    From these premises, it is argued, it follows that,

    (C): If not God, Jesus is either not great or not moral.
    Wikipedia: Lewis's trilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Quote Originally Posted by ayoitsStepho View Post
    Ohhhh, one more thing from what you asked about Jesus being a serpaint and such.



    Those versus are showing us what will happen in the future in the bible. Foreshadowing.
    When the Lord told moses to put the snake on a pole and lift it to the sky so all the people coulds see and be healed, God was foreshadowing Christs death.
    When Jesus was crusified, he was lifted into the sky on the cross and all who looked to him and believed where forgiven of their sins, they're fate was sealed with Jesus Christ. They'll have eternal life in heaven.
    Its not saying that Jesus was a serpaint or anything like that, its just a foreshadow of Christs death.

    I can help with any specific questions you have with Christianity. Um but I cannot read the things about any new age type of things or anything that dwells in new age philosephy [im not sure if those were the links you were giving out.]. It's a personal reasoning behind that I do not allow myself to, but if you have questions about anything else I can try to help. I'm not a huge buff in all of it, but I know Christianity
    Well, what are your opinions of infallibility of the Bible? From what you are saying, that is crucial to your faith. What can back this up so it is possible to be confident with your faith? I have done my own research into this and am currently awaiting the arrival of my books about this subject. I am fascinated by this subject. Jesus's teachings are revolutionary and perfect... but what about the rest of the bible? What about the interpretation of Jesus as Savior? The apostles were the ones proclaiming this, but I do not think Jesus ever out right said "I am the Savior." He did proclaim he was the Son of God and The Way, The Truth, and The Life, however.

    I am slightly uncomfortable when people quote the bible when trying to back up what they were saying. Is faith alone that it was divinely inspired? I do not know because I have so much to learn about the Church and Christianity before I decide to place my trust in Jesus.

    I would love to hear your perspective on faith if you care to share.

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    Sadly, I wrote this whole thing out for you....but it logged me out and erased it all.
    It was really good too x/
    Tomorrow I'll come on when I'm not all tired so I can give you proper information.
    I'm sorry its taking so long.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

  10. #10
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    Oh, I'm sorry! Hate it so much, especially when you feel like you put your thoughts down just right.

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