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  1. #61
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I find this interesting because I'm your age but I'm reluctant to consider adoption as an option due mainly to the horrifying things you so often see in foster care....and even if it doesn't get to the abuse levels, you can't really know how the adoptive parents will treat the child...or even that it'd be adopted at all. And then you have the adopted child later in life wondering why you "threw him away" and didn't want him etc etc. Not to say there aren't amazing foster parents (there are), you just can't know for sure without an open adoption.

    I would kinda rather prevent the child from being born rather than subject it (and me) to that uncertainty for our whole lives. So the choice for me would be between abortion and keeping it...and I'm not even sure now what choice I would make, because abortion's not something I would be comfortable with (but neither is raising a child at this point in my life..)

    sorry I'll stop talking since I'm a potential baby-killer. I just wanted to comment on that.
    New babies are always "in demand" in the West--it's kids that adoptive parents aren't able to raise from birth that are in foster care. (Right? I think?)
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    New babies are always "in demand" in the West--it's kids that adoptive parents aren't able to raise from birth that are in foster care. (Right? I think?)
    Children that are initially placed in foster care are there because their parents didn't/won't sign away their parental rights and as of yet, a judge has not terminated their rights. While they are in the foster home, the parent may sign or a judge may terminate and then they are (sometimes) available for adoption.

    There are a lot of studies and information coming out of the adoption reform that makes adoption look like a pretty poor choice as well. In America its a billion dollar industry, a lot of corruption and child trafficking. Many Biological Mothers from the 50s/60s are now speaking out about the effects have given their children up and their children after reuniting are speaking out with them.

  3. #63
    Sniffles
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    Plain and simple, abortion means the killing of not only an innocent life form, but one that can't even rightfully defends itself. That in itself is unjust.

    Appealing to the differences between a fetus and a child is really a red herring, since Personhood is an ethical not a biological category. One's Personhood is not determined by what exact stage of biological development you're in, it's an instrinstic value - based upon the key notion that human life is a good in of itself.

    This also ties into issues of "quality" of life; which treats life as merely a means, not an end. As Aristotle put it in Rhetoric: "And life: since, even if no other good were the result of life, it is desirable in itself."

  4. #64
    (☞゚∀゚)☞ The Decline's Avatar
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    Study Finds 31% Rate of Miscarriage - The New York Times

    God is such a bastard. He's the final boss of abortionists!

    Though if you were to count "potential" as a qualifier for aborting life, then I must admit that I've wiped entire civilizations off of my chest...
    "Stop it, you fuck. Give him some butter."
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    = Ne > Ni > Fi > Te > Se > Fe > Si INTP (I/PNT) 5w4

  5. #65
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Decline View Post
    Study Finds 31% Rate of Miscarriage - The New York Times

    God is such a bastard. He's the final boss of abortionists!
    Thanks for trolling.

  6. #66
    (☞゚∀゚)☞ The Decline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Thanks for trolling.
    I just find it hard swallow that anti-abortionists groups enjoy taking away civil rights, on the sole basis of "saving lives", when there's plenty of lives to be saved in Africa due to malnutrition, as well as environmental poverty which leads to an increased infantile mortality rate.

    Such a limited scope makes me lose complete respect in their fight.
    "Stop it, you fuck. Give him some butter."
    Ti
    = Ne > Ni > Fi > Te > Se > Fe > Si INTP (I/PNT) 5w4

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Decline View Post
    I just find it hard swallow that anti-abortionists groups enjoy taking away civil rights, on the sole basis of "saving lives", when there's plenty of lives to be saved in Africa due to malnutrition, as well as environmental poverty which leads to an increased infantile mortality rate.

    Such a limited scope makes me lose complete respect in their fight.
    So the obvious solution is to ignore the killing our own infants and focus on reducing our own wealth so we can help raise up the rest of the world? Because we as individuals have so much more control over what happens in Africa than we do with our own children?

  8. #68
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Decline View Post
    I just find it hard swallow that anti-abortionists groups enjoy taking away civil rights, on the sole basis of "saving lives", when there's plenty of lives to be saved in Africa due to malnutrition, as well as environmental poverty which leads to an increased infantile mortality rate.
    How exactly is abortion a civil right?

    Concerning social injustices, you obviously lack any realization that religious groups have long been addressing those as well - in Africa and elsewhere. Just within the last week or so there's been stories about the Pope trying to raise such issues with the Synod of Africa(which just closed today); along with his latest encyclical Caritas in Veritate which asserts that respect for the sanctity of human life is the true basis for social justice.

    You could also benefit from introductionary readings into Protestant Social Gospel as well.


    Such a limited scope makes me lose complete respect in their fight.
    If anybody is demonstrating a limited scope here, it's you.

  9. #69
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    How exactly is abortion a civil right?
    Uh... you're taking away a woman's right to do what she wishes with her body.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  10. #70
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Uh... you're taking away a woman's right to do what she wishes with her body.
    Except in reality she's doing something to somebody else's body. Even then, self-posession has its limits - both legally and morally.

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