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  1. #581
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I notice a lot of people on this thread and IRL equate abortion to murder. For sake of their argument let's say this is correct. Okay. What punishment should those who get abortions have?

    Abortion is murder (premeditated) so anyone who is guilty of this should be either sentenced to death or incarcerated for 25 to life according to our laws. Yet when I ask this question of someone who expresses this opinion they are dumbfounded or say that's too harsh. Or too severe a punishment.
    It's a great point.

    While some people would like to equate it with murder, morally, in terms of practical response they do not actually treat it as murder. They just want to stop people from doing it, but they wouldn't want to see their sister be executed on the chair for it... if even sent to jail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    So I'd say the contraceptive implants for females which, in all but a small percentage of cases work for between five and ten years and do not have major health consequences, roll them out as mandatory to everyone, unless you exercise an opt out for whatever reason you or your parents. Roll it out to cover the years when most accidential pregnancies occur when people are physically mature but not any other way.

    It'd save the taxpayer a fortune, surely its a pro-life measure because it prevents abortions, only a small group of those faith communities who still actively reject artificial contraception actually adher to and practice compliance with those guidelines but if they want to opt out let them. It's not the people who're thinking hard enough about their sexual health and decisions that we need to worry about its the people who forget or neglect or who're impulsive anyway.
    Or we could just impose mandatory contraception on the males instead. After all, they're far more sexually driven than females at that age, and as long as the males are shooting blanks, no one will get pregnant either.

    Wow, I hope someone puts that into law!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #582
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Or we could just impose mandatory contraception on the males instead. After all, they're far more sexually driven than females at that age, and as long as the males are shooting blanks, no one will get pregnant either.

    Wow, I hope someone puts that into law!
    Either way, I dont mind, although I'm only familiar with chemical implants working with any success on the female side, there's also the issue that if you where able to roll out this treatment it would be for a particular age group, the chances of older males in the community who are outside of the catchment group impregnating younger females is unfortunately higher than vice versa.

  3. #583
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I hope you do see the typical issue being addressed here, though, in terms of the sort of social statements you're making. There are some human aspects to the problem you're failing to consider, which is one reason why your suggestion would never be implemented.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #584
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I hope you do see the typical issue being addressed here, though, in terms of the sort of social statements you're making. There are some human aspects to the problem you're failing to consider, which is one reason why your suggestion would never be implemented.
    Not sure what you're saying, you'd need to clarify.

  5. #585
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Sure, the total number of abortions would rise but the number of spontaneous abortions would remain the same.

    I can see no reason to connect the number of spontaneous abortions with the number of induced abortions.

    However I have noticed that when religion and morality are involved, reason flies out the window.

    But there is always the still, quiet voice of reason.


    You're hilarious Victor
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  6. #586
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    part of the genesis of so many abortions is that our society is sex-driven in the first place, perhaps women aren't receiving effective protection under the law, the institution of marriage is being cheapened and destroyed, tax laws often make it easier financially to be single than married, etc. There are so many factors that contribute to abortions that there is no one single solution to stopping it. And the lobbying groups for reproductive "rights" make it more difficult.

    Were it illegal, it most certainly should be severely punishable. However the excuse of "we'll have to lock up so many women" is short-sighted. Why? Because anybody who knows anything about law enforcement knows that the priority goes to stopping the supplier of criminal behavior. So while the women (and possibly male financiers) should be held accountable for the crimes, the more sever punishment would be given to the abortion operator.

    Lark, abortion is prohibited by the constitution in the Republic of Ireland--how do things operate there?
    Johari Nohari

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  7. #587
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Not sure what you're saying, you'd need to clarify.
    What, I have to explain that a government-run mandatory contraceptive program for one gender or the other (and ESPECIALLY for women, considering how some countries don't yet even have gender equality in society, and in the United States women didn't even get the right to vote until the 20's and still haven't quite caught up with men financially) is an extremely volatile idea socially and could even fall into discriminatory practices?

    (At least China's one-child-per-family rule did not single out one gender to be repressed.)

    Aren't you also one of those who doesn't like government intervention and invasion into social issues, especially where they involve personal freedoms? Mandatory contraception certainly seems invasive to me. I'm not seeing a consistency of position here, except one of convenience.

    I'm actually being nice by assuming you have no actual bias here and simply are not considering the human aspect of and cultural response to your proposed social programs.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #588
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    another thing worth noting is that many would-be abortion abolitionists simply shrug their shoulders and give up thinking that Roe v Wade will never be overturned. They get discouraged, understandably so.

    It's important to note that there are other ways to chip away at the evil of abortion aside from overturning Roe v Wade. For instance (in 2003 I think) Congress passed a law to make partial-birth abortions illegal murders. There are also executive orders involved such as Obama's which allow federal funding to go to overseas organizations that promote or perform abortions, which was previously an exec order revoked by Bush. Also, there are matters of parental consent, education, and many other ways of curbing the amount performed outside of rescinding Roe v Wade.

    Furthermore, there are Justices that think Roe v Wade will be overturned, including some who are actually supporters of the ruling. The future is not at all clear.
    Johari Nohari

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  9. #589
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    What, I have to explain that a government-run mandatory contraceptive program for one gender or the other (and ESPECIALLY for women, considering how some countries don't yet even have gender equality in society, and in the United States women didn't even get the right to vote until the 20's and still haven't quite caught up with men financially) is an extremely volatile idea socially and could even fall into discriminatory practices?

    (At least China's one-child-per-family rule did not single out one gender to be repressed.)

    Aren't you also one of those who doesn't like government intervention and invasion into social issues, especially where they involve personal freedoms? Mandatory contraception certainly seems invasive to me. I'm not seeing a consistency of position here, except one of convenience.

    I'm actually being nice by assuming you have no actual bias here and simply are not considering the human aspect of and cultural response to your proposed social programs.
    I'd have to say that I don't like the ideas of forced contraception because it does seem invasive and would be met with resistance from left and right, but am more than willing to support government programs that offer support and services to pregnant women.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  10. #590
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    aIt's important to note that there are other ways to chip away at the evil of abortion aside from overturning Roe v Wade. For instance (in 2003 I think) Congress passed a law to make partial-birth abortions illegal murders. There are also executive orders involved such as Obama's which allow federal funding to go to overseas organizations that promote or perform abortions, which was previously an exec order revoked by Bush. Also, there are matters of parental consent, education, and many other ways of curbing the amount performed outside of rescinding Roe v Wade.
    LULZ! Evil? Aren't we being a tad overdramatic?
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