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  1. #191
    Senior Member nynesneg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    This is a poor analogy. Try for a better one. The baby took no action, the parents who got pregnant took action.
    LDS people would argue otherwise. According to them, the spirit baby chose a host and came down from heaven and was happy to be given a life here.


    No offense anyone, merely pointing out a different viewpoint.

  2. #192
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poser View Post
    See, this is my big thing. Why should I get to decide that someone else has to go through something that will never happen to me? Something that does have risks and a certain amount of pain (emotional and physical).
    Why must a judge weigh out the defendant and the prosecutor's position equally?


    I think this argument has tired my brain out. I appreciate all of you suffering my moral inflexibility long enough to have this discussion with me

  3. #193
    Twerking & Lurking ayoitsStepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    That's right.

    Well, at least you can tell how wrong your perspectives are. I'll give you credit for that.
    Actually I believe 100% in my perspectives. Just because I know how I may look to others doesnt mean thats how I see myself. I'm pretty confident in my oppinions, just as you are.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

  4. #194
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Ok. If you prefer, suppose the hospital staff picked your name out of a hat.
    Nope. You're still placing agency on an outside source. The only action was taken by the parents--you need an analogy where the people who took action are not responsible for the consequences of that action.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  5. #195
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    They probably wouldn't make good servants. They're probably more likely to be criminals or welfare recipients. It's not like abortionists are going into happy homes and snatching children from loving families.

    Then again, perhaps abortion will be partially responsible for failure of entitlement programs (like social security) in the future, since there won't be enough young people to pay for the old.

    I want a freaking cost/benefit analysis!
    See? You've clearly placed benefit to society above individual civil liberties. On what grounds?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    It is not me who killed them, it is their disease that killed them. When you abort a fetus, it is YOU/your doctor who is killing it. No apples and oranges comparisons please.
    In both cases, it's some unanticipated event which puts the host/donor in an unwanted position.

  7. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    In both cases, it's some unanticipated event which puts the host/donor in an unwanted position.
    And so you make decisions, and you live with the consequences. The purpose behind regulating abortion would be to add consequences to effect people's decision making. No free will is taken, you just simply have more incentive to act a certain way.

  8. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Nope. You're still placing agency on an outside source. The only action was taken by the parents--you need an analogy where the people who took action are not responsible for the consequences of that action.
    So you're asserting that having sex obligates the woman to carry an unplanned and unwanted pregnancy to full term? This is a very contentious point.

  9. #199
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    It is not beneficial to the pro-abortion argument to approach this from the perspective of "rights"... that's what rights are, a choice. But we limit what choices can be made on the basis of how they affect others. That is why children are not allowed to drive cars, but when they are 16 they can earn that right. They still have to follow the rules of the road. Likewise, we have a choice to have sex, but I dont see why that makes us exempt from the responsibilities that come with it.
    That's like saying little kids who fall into wells shouldn't be rescued because they shouldn't have been playing near the well in the first place. Oh, and drug overdoses? Nah, no need to revive them--they shouldn't have been doing drugs in the first place! Heart attack from high cholesterol? Sucks for you--it's not society's problem that you eat too many double cheeseburgers!

    Nature endows teenagers with powerful and confusing sexual feelings long before it equips them with the gift of perfect foresight. Dooming a young person to the extraordinary pressure of parenthood because s/he made an impulsive mistake is pretty questionable, imo.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #200
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    See? You've clearly placed benefit to society above individual civil liberties. On what grounds?
    When you said "always", I assumed you were talking about all issues, not just this one. I don't "always" place the benefit to society above individual civil liberties. I do so on this particular issue because there is no moral consensus.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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