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  1. #151
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    People will never agree on the moral and ethical aspects of abortion. I wish people could debate the economic aspects of the issue without devolving into this sort of debate. This thread is pointless.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayoitsStepho View Post
    But sex is made to reproduce, so if you have sex you should at least realise that you can very well have a baby if you do exacally what it takes to reproduce.
    That's why it's comforting to know that options are available if birth control fails.

  3. #153
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    btw stepho, the word is exactly.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    People will never agree on the moral and ethical aspects of abortion.
    That is why it should be up to the individual.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    lol I <3 the "it's not natural!" argument that conservatives apply like a blunt hammer to any social/sexual issue that bothers them (abortion, homosexuality, you name it!)

    I wonder if any of them have ever heard of modern medicine, contact lenses, polyester, etc.

    If it's your belief that unnatural = bad, then fine, but if you want to legislate that belief you need something more substantial than just your personal feeling that it's unnatural. You're talking about restricting other people's rights here!
    Do you level this against Left-wing enviromentalists as well - since nature seems to hold a more primary element to their perspective?

  6. #156
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    That is why it should be up to the individual.
    No no no, your personal choices about your body should be up to me, not you. It's because you're wrong and I'm right, get it?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #157
    Senior Member nynesneg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    People will never agree on the moral and ethical aspects of abortion. I wish people could debate the economic aspects of the issue without devolving into this sort of debate. This thread is pointless.
    Oh I agree.

    Never really have taken the time to form an educated opinion on the issue.

    I'm just curious why people don't see hormonal birth control under the same ethical category. Because either way you're not letting sperm+egg together live.

  8. #158
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Accepting the risk does not imply that I will not do everything to mitigate damages should it occur.


    Natural does not matter. If you got a severe infection, it's not natural to survive it. Yet, we intervene with antibiotics.
    I really am not sure how else to explain this... as soon as conception occurs, it is my belief that another human life must be taken into account, so at that point intervention is essentially murder. Not in the gunshot, knife wound sort of way, more like the what was once both alive and human is now no longer alive by the purposeful actions of another human without just cause because the victim is innocent.

    As I stated earlier the bottom line disagreement is what is human life essentially. All these other things are just distractions. Here, I will provide a diagram:



    It is my belief that human life begins when the 2 arrows become one. The egg and the sperm alone will remain that way, it is when by our choices they are joined them that another life begins. Not every time, but you're rolling the dice either way. My point about the auto accident is that our choices have consequences.

    So the question here is, what is the correct choice of action? I say, allow nature to run its course as we know and expect it to and accept the responsibility of your actions. Others say, make up for the outcome at the expense of another's life. However, I know the "make up for our mistakes" attitude is largely what dominates our society. Overweight? Diet and exercise are slow and painstaking, why not liposuction or this mystery pill? That way, you can keep overeating, because the problem is not they you're stuffing your face, it's that stuffing your face makes you fat, and damnit we dont like that! WTF nature, how could you.

  9. #159
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Yes grayscale we're well aware of how the birds and the bees work and the fact that sex risks pregnancy, thanks.

    Sixth grade sex ed lessons aside, though, we're discussing whether or not people have the right to force other people to have babies once a pregnancy has occurred.

    Your position suggests implicitly that according to some arbitrary moral directive, sex should only happen for procreation. Why should having sex for recreation constitute a binding agreement to bear a child if neither participant wants one? I don't like the implication that I'm morally in the wrong if I'm having sex without the desire to produce offspring.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #160
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    That is why it should be up to the individual.
    No, that's why a cost/benefit analysis should be performed to see if abortion benefits society. My intuition tells me that abortion probably does benefit society, but I don't know that for sure.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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